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Anyone Familiar with Waterloo Computer Science and Financial Management Program?

A photo of Vingilot Vingilot
I Have been accepted to the program and am very interested in an opportunity to integrate business practices and finances with an enthusiasm in computer science. While from the research I've done I remain interested in the program I am also applying to waterloo for software engineering and if accepted was wondering if that program might be a better choice, I know its more competitive. Does anyone know if the Computing/Financial Management program is reputable and a challenging learning experience?

Thanks!
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
The CFM program is rather new so the name is not quite out there on the job market right now - in fact it has just sent out the first graduating class last year. As you may know, it's a program offered by the David Cheriton School of CS and the School of Accounting and Finance (The school that offers AFM, Math/CA, Biotech/CA). You take 18 courses in Math/CS and 18 courses in Arts and graduate with a Bachelors of Computing and Financial Management.

If you want to just learn CS to be able to learn programming skills to be useful on the job and aren't that interested in the actual subject, then CFM might be for you. Obviously, you take quite a few less CS courses than CS majors in upper years so you would be disadvantaged in that sense. For e.g. CS 350: operating systems is not required of CFMs and I'd consider that pretty essential for anyone studying Computer Science.

Also, the tuition for CFM 16K/year which is off the charts.

To answer your questions. CFM is definitely not reputable as of yet and despite what it says on their brochures, with its current structure I doubt it will ever be. And compared to SE, it probably isn't a challenging learning experience.
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A photo of greygoose greygoose
Second to the above. I feel sorry for the suckers that sign up for Waterloo's finance programs. The tuition is exorbitant and there is no real value in it.

It would probably be more valuable to do either a finance degree or a computer science degree. Of course, I'd support the latter far more.
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A photo of jasonty9 jasonty9

@immaculatedx wrote
The CFM program is rather new so the name is not quite out there on the job market right now - in fact it has just sent out the first graduating class last year. As you may know, it's a program offered by the David Cheriton School of CS and the School of Accounting and Finance (The school that offers AFM, Math/CA, Biotech/CA). You take 18 courses in Math/CS and 18 courses in Arts and graduate with a Bachelors of Computing and Financial Management.

If you want to just learn CS to be able to learn programming skills to be useful on the job and aren't that interested in the actual subject, then CFM might be for you. Obviously, you take quite a few less CS courses than CS majors in upper years so you would be disadvantaged in that sense. For e.g. CS 350: operating systems is not required of CFMs and I'd consider that pretty essential for anyone studying Computer Science.

Also, the tuition for CFM 16K/year which is off the charts.

To answer your questions. CFM is definitely not reputable as of yet and despite what it says on their brochures, with its current structure I doubt it will ever be. And compared to SE, it probably isn't a challenging learning experience.


how about Waterloo's FARM? Is it better than CFM??
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A photo of greygoose greygoose

@jasonty9 wrote
how about Waterloo's FARM? Is it better than CFM??



If you're not interested in Computer Science, sure. It's still a financial degree. You could be studying far more interesting things at university.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@jasonty9 wrote

@immaculatedx wrote
The CFM program is rather new so the name is not quite out there on the job market right now - in fact it has just sent out the first graduating class last year. As you may know, it's a program offered by the David Cheriton School of CS and the School of Accounting and Finance (The school that offers AFM, Math/CA, Biotech/CA). You take 18 courses in Math/CS and 18 courses in Arts and graduate with a Bachelors of Computing and Financial Management.

If you want to just learn CS to be able to learn programming skills to be useful on the job and aren't that interested in the actual subject, then CFM might be for you. Obviously, you take quite a few less CS courses than CS majors in upper years so you would be disadvantaged in that sense. For e.g. CS 350: operating systems is not required of CFMs and I'd consider that pretty essential for anyone studying Computer Science.

Also, the tuition for CFM 16K/year which is off the charts.

To answer your questions. CFM is definitely not reputable as of yet and despite what it says on their brochures, with its current structure I doubt it will ever be. And compared to SE, it probably isn't a challenging learning experience.


how about Waterloo's FARM? Is it better than CFM??



CFM and FARM are both pretty bad programs in my opinion because you are limiting your career paths so to say but these programs don't offer much of a comparative advantage outside just being labelled as a "finance" type. Read my post on your previous FARM topic.

Be wary of finance programs in general. I never understood really in the past why there weren't more finance programs considering the lucrative careers in Wall St./Bay st. I never understood how Engineers could become investment bankers after learning chemistry and physics nor did I understand why almost none of the Ivy League schools offered undergraduate business programs.

But it's kind of more clear now, you don't need to be in a business program to work in finance. The reason Schulich/Ivey/QC grads get the jobs they do has less to do with what they learned in the classroom but rather outside of it. It's probably hard to understand in high school, but there really isn't much substance in finance. I know when you hear all these crazy terms on all the stockwatches and etc. but it's really just their lingo for different terms and that may make the subject appear more quantitative and advanced than it really is. In reality, Finance is more of an art rather than an academic subject. No one is going to teach you how to make or manage money properly in the classroom and at a successful rate.

Anyways, that was poorly written but I hope I got my point across.
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A photo of jasonty9 jasonty9

@immaculatedx wrote

@jasonty9 wrote

@immaculatedx wrote
The CFM program is rather new so the name is not quite out there on the job market right now - in fact it has just sent out the first graduating class last year. As you may know, it's a program offered by the David Cheriton School of CS and the School of Accounting and Finance (The school that offers AFM, Math/CA, Biotech/CA). You take 18 courses in Math/CS and 18 courses in Arts and graduate with a Bachelors of Computing and Financial Management.

If you want to just learn CS to be able to learn programming skills to be useful on the job and aren't that interested in the actual subject, then CFM might be for you. Obviously, you take quite a few less CS courses than CS majors in upper years so you would be disadvantaged in that sense. For e.g. CS 350: operating systems is not required of CFMs and I'd consider that pretty essential for anyone studying Computer Science.

Also, the tuition for CFM 16K/year which is off the charts.

To answer your questions. CFM is definitely not reputable as of yet and despite what it says on their brochures, with its current structure I doubt it will ever be. And compared to SE, it probably isn't a challenging learning experience.


how about Waterloo's FARM? Is it better than CFM??



CFM and FARM are both pretty bad programs in my opinion because you are limiting your career paths so to say but these programs don't offer much of a comparative advantage outside just being labelled as a "finance" type. Read my post on your previous FARM topic.

Be wary of finance programs in general. I never understood really in the past why there weren't more finance programs considering the lucrative careers in Wall St./Bay st. I never understood how Engineers could become investment bankers after learning chemistry and physics nor did I understand why almost none of the Ivy League schools offered undergraduate business programs.

But it's kind of more clear now, you don't need to be in a business program to work in finance. The reason Schulich/Ivey/QC grads get the jobs they do has less to do with what they learned in the classroom but rather outside of it. It's probably hard to understand in high school, but there really isn't much substance in finance. I know when you hear all these crazy terms on all the stockwatches and etc. but it's really just their lingo for different terms and that may make the subject appear more quantitative and advanced than it really is. In reality, Finance is more of an art rather than an academic subject. No one is going to teach you how to make or manage money properly in the classroom and at a successful rate.

Anyways, that was poorly written but I hope I got my point across.


hey thanks for the information! I wonder why you did not mention Rotman/Sauder? Are they really that bad?

Also do you think doing a Master in Finance is a good choice?
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
I could throw in Rotman I guess but it's probably a couple tiers below Schulich/Ivey/QC at the undergraduate level. I don't know enough about Sauder since it's across the country but I've heard good things about that program.

MFin programs if I'm not mistaken can be quite different at different schools. I don't think there are many good MFin programs in Canada but I really don't know much about it.
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A photo of redherring redherring

@greygoose wrote
Second to the above. I feel sorry for the suckers that sign up for Waterloo's finance programs. The tuition is exorbitant and there is no real value in it.

It would probably be more valuable to do either a finance degree or a computer science degree. Of course, I'd support the latter far more.


I would agree with this. They sound cool but they're just too much to fit into a 4-5 year degree so you lose half the content (not literally). AFM is the only finance program at Waterloo that seems useful (since there is accounting too), otherwise math or CS or engineering are the way to go IMO.
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