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Arts at Queens or Humanities at UTM?

A photo of NatashaForever NatashaForever
I got accepted into both!

Queens is really far, so I would have to live on residence.
Is the Arts (Honours) program a really good one?

Or is UTM for Humanities a better choice? I heard UofT Arts are good too...

Just looking for some opinions :) Thanks in advance!
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A photo of liontogael liontogael
I'm thinking Queens would probably be better in terms of atmosphere, and grades, also providing a great and prestigious education, but UofT would likely challenge you more, with the result being a lower GPA.
But that just my opinion amount many.
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A photo of Omok Omok
ACTUALLY, from my own experiences, Queen's is significantly harder than UT in terms of Arts programs.

I have a friend in UTSC for psychology, and I'm at Queen's for general arts. -- We both have the same text book for First year psych, and queen's go about 1 chapter A week, and they go about 1 chapter TWO weeks. -- our psych final last semester had an average of 55%

With the average acceptance mark for Queen's being higher than UT, and harder too, since we all had to write an PSE...AND we still screw up, collectively, on a course, together...

-----

But of course, i have a strong Queen's Bias... Since I did pick here over everywhere else. Haha.

But the arts program is pretty good. Our profs in arts, most of them are pretty awesome. ('cept the boring monotoned philosophy ones..but there are still a few good beans in that.)

And why do you make living in residence sound like a bad thing?

Most kids at queen's are not kingston natives, or live anywhere around this lot, as a result, we are forced to settle down and be homey here at kingston.

It's a cool place, after a while, learning the bus routes and all. But the folks here are awesome.

And yeah, we do party hard. (I personally don't, BUT, those who do, have LOADS of fun.)

:)
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A photo of NatashaForever NatashaForever

@Omok wrote
ACTUALLY, from my own experiences, Queen's is significantly harder than UT in terms of Arts programs.

I have a friend in UTSC for psychology, and I'm at Queen's for general arts. -- We both have the same text book for First year psych, and queen's go about 1 chapter A week, and they go about 1 chapter TWO weeks. -- our psych final last semester had an average of 55%

With the average acceptance mark for Queen's being higher than UT, and harder too, since we all had to write an PSE...AND we still screw up, collectively, on a course, together...

-----

But of course, i have a strong Queen's Bias... Since I did pick here over everywhere else. Haha.

But the arts program is pretty good. Our profs in arts, most of them are pretty awesome. ('cept the boring monotoned philosophy ones..but there are still a few good beans in that.)

And why do you make living in residence sound like a bad thing?

Most kids at queen's are not kingston natives, or live anywhere around this lot, as a result, we are forced to settle down and be homey here at kingston.

It's a cool place, after a while, learning the bus routes and all. But the folks here are awesome.

And yeah, we do party hard. (I personally don't, BUT, those who do, have LOADS of fun.)

:)



Thanks so much for the info! :) Yeah I heard to avoid first year psych if I choose Queens, unless I wish to pursue a career in psych. :P

And the only reason residence is a bad thing is the cost, I do wish to go to law school and money is quite a big factor. I was just wondering if the Arts program is actually worth it though.

But anyway, thanks for your input :) !
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A photo of NatashaForever NatashaForever

@liontogael wrote
I'm thinking Queens would probably be better in terms of atmosphere, and grades, also providing a great and prestigious education, but UofT would likely challenge you more, with the result being a lower GPA.
But that just my opinion amount many.



Yeah, I've heard the atmosphere is really nice at Queens.

I heard that the low GPA thing is mostly for science programs though...

And that UofT has a well established Arts program...

So that's why I'm sort of torn between the two at the moment.

Thanks for your input! :)
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A photo of ariadne89 ariadne89
I'm currently at Queen's, but originally from the Etobicoke/Mississauga area so I have a lot of friends who go to UTM and therefore have a decent idea of the experience there.

Yes, I'm biased, but overall I would have to say that Queen's is more academically rigorous and leads to a more prestigious degree than UTM, although the idea of a "more prestigious arts degree" isn't really tangible anyways. Although UTM has a few difficult programs (sociology and criminology are hard there), overall Queen's seems to grade more difficultly, so I can't agree with the person who said that Queen's will be easier on your GPA. This is just anecdotal, but I had a group of friends at UTM who all took an upper year history class together, and all three of them got grades in the 90s with fairly little effort. I'm in history at Queen's, and grades that high simply aren't given out here, period. Only 5-15% of the class usually gets an 80 or higher, 90s are extremely rare, and the vast majority of the class gets Bs and Cs. I'm not necessarily complaining though, because the whole reason I came to university was to challenge myself.

In terms of the residence question, Queen's and UTM are entirely different places. Like the poster above said, most students at Queen's come from out of town and live on or very close to campus, which results in a really tight-knit community. UTM is mainly a commuter school, with students driving or taking transit in from all over the GTA. That is not to say that there isn't community or a decent social scene at UTM. There are tons of clubs and activities to get involved in and many of my friends have had a great time there. However, I would say you have to put out more effort to get involved and connect with people at a commuter school like UTM compared to a school like Queen's where you are literally living in the middle of a ready-made social scene since 90% of students live within 15 minutes of each other/campus.

However, all of that said, if you're not getting any scholarships/bursaries and are concerned about finances, 9000$ for 8 months of residence is really steep. Although I do feel that the academic standards are a bit higher at Queen's and there is perhaps a better student community here, living at home and going to UTM is still probably your best option because the differences between the two schools/degrees aren't that huge. Either way it's only an arts degree, and a degree in humanities, regardless of whether its from UTM or Queen's, isn't likely to lead directly to a job anyways. Considering the job market and the over-inflation of degrees right now, I would say it's better to just stay at home and get your degree for as cheaply as you can, rather than going into debt for an undergrad degree. You can always go somewhere else for grad school.
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A photo of ariadne89 ariadne89
BTW, I don't want to sound overly harsh or crush your dreams or anything, but in terms of careers and future plans, I would try to keep your options open and not get your heart too set on law school just yet, at least not until you've done a few years of school and see if there is anything else out there that tickles your fancy. I'm not sure how much you know about the job market for lawyers right now, but it is absolutely horrible, nearly as bad as it is for teachers. There is a massive over-supply of unemployed lawyers and almost zero demand for them right now, plus more and more students enrolling in law school every year because they want to tide out the recession by remaining in school. We're talking literally 200 applicants every time one job opens up. That situation is not likely to improve over the next few years either. And I personally know 50-odd people just at Queen's who are planning to apply to law school when they're done with their undergrad. There simply will not be jobs for most of these people. So I'm not trying to imply that you wouldn't succeed anything like that, but I'm just reminding you to keep your options open and also be realistic and honest with yourself.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous

@Omok wrote
ACTUALLY, from my own experiences, Queen's is significantly harder than UT in terms of Arts programs.

I have a friend in UTSC for psychology, and I'm at Queen's for general arts. -- We both have the same text book for First year psych, and queen's go about 1 chapter A week, and they go about 1 chapter TWO weeks. -- our psych final last semester had an average of 55%

With the average acceptance mark for Queen's being higher than UT, and harder too, since we all had to write an PSE...AND we still screw up, collectively, on a course, together...

-----

But of course, i have a strong Queen's Bias... Since I did pick here over everywhere else. Haha.

But the arts program is pretty good. Our profs in arts, most of them are pretty awesome. ('cept the boring monotoned philosophy ones..but there are still a few good beans in that.)

And why do you make living in residence sound like a bad thing?

Most kids at queen's are not kingston natives, or live anywhere around this lot, as a result, we are forced to settle down and be homey here at kingston.

It's a cool place, after a while, learning the bus routes and all. But the folks here are awesome.

And yeah, we do party hard. (I personally don't, BUT, those who do, have LOADS of fun.)

:)



Okay, I'm not directing this statement/question at you but...

Why do people say Psychology is sooooo easy?

I don't understand, my friend at UTM said the Intro Psych class marks were pretty low and you state that the Psych final at Queens had a 55% average.

I'd understand if the class averages were in the high 80s but they aren't!
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A photo of ariadne89 ariadne89

@Medic93 wrote

@Omok wrote
ACTUALLY, from my own experiences, Queen's is significantly harder than UT in terms of Arts programs.

I have a friend in UTSC for psychology, and I'm at Queen's for general arts. -- We both have the same text book for First year psych, and queen's go about 1 chapter A week, and they go about 1 chapter TWO weeks. -- our psych final last semester had an average of 55%

With the average acceptance mark for Queen's being higher than UT, and harder too, since we all had to write an PSE...AND we still screw up, collectively, on a course, together...

-----

But of course, i have a strong Queen's Bias... Since I did pick here over everywhere else. Haha.

But the arts program is pretty good. Our profs in arts, most of them are pretty awesome. ('cept the boring monotoned philosophy ones..but there are still a few good beans in that.)

And why do you make living in residence sound like a bad thing?

Most kids at queen's are not kingston natives, or live anywhere around this lot, as a result, we are forced to settle down and be homey here at kingston.

It's a cool place, after a while, learning the bus routes and all. But the folks here are awesome.

And yeah, we do party hard. (I personally don't, BUT, those who do, have LOADS of fun.)

:)



Okay, I'm not directing this statement/question at you but...

Why do people say Psychology is sooooo easy?

I don't understand, my friend at UTM said the Intro Psych class marks were pretty low and you state that the Psych final at Queens had a 55% average.

I'd understand if the class averages were in the high 80s but they aren't!



The following is just my opinion, so take it with a grain of salt...

Psych isn't harder or easier than other disciplines, it's just different. First and second year psych classes tend to be very large, which means that most psych exams/tests in the first two years test purely by multiple choice questions. It isn't until the classes get smaller in like 3rd and 4th year that there tends to be more research assignments, clinical studies, etc. Some people are very good at multiple choice tests, and I think the reason people say psych is easy is because studying for it tends to be pretty much rote memorization and applying basic concepts. You don't necessarily have to think that much, just memorize lots of random stuff. Many people find memorizing a textbook much easier than writing a 10 page essay for say a literature or history class which actually requires a lot of analysis and deep thought. Other people really struggle with the multiple choice finals found in psych, because they aren't good at remembering small details or applying concepts. However, like I said, once you get past first year you will be moving on from rote memorization finals to assignments and research where you actually have to write and analyze. Overall though, psych tends not be as writing-intensive as other arts disciplines. You'll have some written assignments, but not 15 page papers like you get in English. Nor does psych have a huge amount of "hard" science. So I think that people who are in more writing-intensive programs like English, philosophy, politics, etc. tend to say that psych is easy because psych majors write less, whereas people in sciences like chem, bio, etc also say that psych is easy because psych does less science. It's not really about it being easy or hard though, it's more just different people being good at different things.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
Well I'll give you my 2 cents, first off I don't consider Psychology to be an "Art" even though schools award B.A. in Psych doesn't mean it's an art, you can also get a B.A. in Neuroscience, or Biology, and even Physics. But that's not what I'm getting at, In my opinion and I'm sure others will agree that Psychology can be considered (depending on the sub-field) both a social science and a life/natural science. You have to take into account that it's a broad field of study. A lot of people think "Meh psychology is just talking about one's personal problems" first off that's not even scratching the surface.

You can't tell me that fields like Physiological Psychology or Neuropsychology aren't "Hard" sciences, in order for one to understand these they need an understanding of statistics, neuroscience, and biology!

Then you have fields like Personality or Social Psychology which would be obviously more social science based.

Hopefully you understand what I'm getting at right?

I think it's too broad of a field to label as either easy or difficult, because difficulty is subjective.

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A photo of AgriGen AgriGen
Not to sound condescending but thats a really informed/great answer for a high school student. Good on you ;)

You might enjoy this read.. I dont agree completely with his view of future prospects but I think its partially true.

http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous

@AgriGen wrote
Not to sound condescending but thats a really informed/great answer for a high school student. Good on you ;)

You might enjoy this read.. I dont agree completely with his view of future prospects but I think its partially true.

http://www.arachnoid.com/psychology/index.html



I briefly read through the link you provided me with, personally I believe this person is mainly examining Clinical Psychology, which can be very comparable to Counselling Psychology. As a whole Psychology is a science cause it does utilize scientific method, however not all sub fields of Psychology are that hardcore when it comes to an understanding of natural sciences. In my opinion if top Universities consider Psych to be a Science then I'll talk their standing over someone who just has their opinion.

I'm planning on going into the field of Neuropsychology, which can be defined as a crossover between Cognitive Psychology and Neurology. I'm pretty interested in studying things like effectively rehabilitating ones cognitive functions after they've sustained a brain injury of some sort. I know I much prefer the more "Hard" science side of psych over the more Social science side.

Thanks for the article, however people tend to generalize Psychology as a whole and don't investigate the sub-fields which have evolved over the past century that have proven to be quite significant in terms of research.
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A photo of ariadne89 ariadne89
Actually Medic, I never said that I think that psychology isn't a "hard" science. You asked a question about "why people say psychology is easy?" and I was simply providing some possible answers that I have heard tossed around by others on campus. Scientific hierarchization, although I may not agree with it, is just one of the potential reasons I was listing as to why people might call psych easy, which was your question in the first place. I did not say that I agree that psych isn't a hard science. I actually hate the my-discipline's-dick-is-bigger-than-yours game as much as you do. I don't see where I was trying to "tell you" that psych isn't a hard science, I was only commenting that it is one of the reasons I have heard tossed around, so there is no need to get all defensive.
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