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BA International Relations - Carleton VS U of T ?

A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
Hey Guys, my names Lukas. I have a question regarding the study of international relations here in Canada. I'm tied between two schools, Carleton and the University of Toronto (Trinity One) IR Program... For the most part I like Carleton because of its strong reputation in IR, however the Norman Paterson School of International Affairs is only for grad students, does this indicate its BA program will be solid as well?

and of course i don't need to explain U of T IR program...
The school is prestigious overall.... but i would rather go to school in Ottawa and i'm not sure U of T's IR program can match Carletons...

you guys got any good advice for me?

thanks ;)
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A photo of sevenzeroz sevenzeroz
I was in the same boat as you - I was choosing between the Public Affairs and Policy Management specialization in International studies and the trinity IR program (which starts in second year btw).

I ended up choosing Carleton for a couple of reasons:

1 - there are co-op oppourtunities for BPAPM students and BA poli sci students

2 - I heard that UofT professors mark extremely hard

3 - UofT is a MASSIVE university, and going there would make me feel like a number

4 - I researched the specific courses for each program and I felt that the BPAPM suited my interests in terms of course content and available electives more than UofT's did

Most of this is personal opinion. Some people may like the fact that UofT is so big and has such an amazing global reputation. My perspective was totally focused on the specific field/program I am going into, and for this reason I chose Carleton.

I've asked around before about it and a lot of people seem to agree that UOttawa/Carleton are 2 of the best universities if you are going into the Political field.

And sorry, I do not know anything about grad schools
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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
Thank you so very much! Im begining to share your same reasoning, im hoping on getting a career with the Canadian Foreign Service/DFAIT and I feel that Ottawa best fits me for that position. Considering the internship and connection possibilities.

Carleton Political Science and International Relations is also susposed to have one of the best and most experienced faculties in Canada, mostnotably because of the Norman School of International Affairs. Plus yet, im not sure if this amounts to anything or not but isnt the International Relations program at the U of T along with the Munk School of Global Affairs reletively new? So wouldn't Carleton being the oldest and the most globally well respected school for the study of international affairs in Canada be the most logical choice?
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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
Second question, you wouldnt happen to know how indepth the economics courses in the BPAPM program are. I feel that im good with theoritical economics but mathematical, im not to sure. Also, is the program difficult to get into?

Which program would you personally recommend, political science with an International Relations concentration or BPAPM with a concentration in international studies for a future career with DFAIT and/or good graduate school possibilities?

Thanks again
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
At the end of the day, you can't go wrong with either schools. Both schools have strong networks, amazing faculty, and good opportunities. I seriously doubt employers would look at a Carleton BA differently from a Toronto BA (a BA is just a BA no matter where you get it in Canada), unless they were Carleton or Toronto alumni, in which case they might have a slight bias towards one of the schools. In all honesty, grades, research and work experience count a lot more than where you got your degree from, whether you're applying to grad school or applying to internships/jobs. It sounds like you made up your mind to go to Carleton for its curriculum and location, so you should do it. Your concerns would be more appropriate if you were trying to choose between the two schools for graduate work, but for an undergrad education, both schools offer solid programs.
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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
The only thing im iffy on right now are the courses...
Im interested on the development, rise, and international ambitions of China.
Also, studies on the Islamic world.. past, present, and future.

I want the best education possible and a course selection that properly fits my interest, thats the only thing thats holding me back right now.

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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
but like you said you cant go wrong with eithier schools...
would you happen to know which university would cater to my interests more?
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
Sorry, I'm not familiar with Carleton's program, but I do know that if you're looking for interdisciplinary studies, U of T is ideal for that. Instead of relying on the opinions of others, why not take a look at the curriculum for each school yourself to see which stands out to you more?
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A photo of ktel ktel
Find the academic calendar for both schools, it should list courses offered.
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A photo of sevenzeroz sevenzeroz

@GlobalOrder17 wrote
Second question, you wouldnt happen to know how indepth the economics courses in the BPAPM program are. I feel that im good with theoritical economics but mathematical, im not to sure. Also, is the program difficult to get into?

Which program would you personally recommend, political science with an International Relations concentration or BPAPM with a concentration in international studies for a future career with DFAIT and/or good graduate school possibilities?

Thanks again



From reading your posts, I would agree with one of the above posters, you sound like you are set on Carleton but want assurance that you are not making the wrong decision.

And I understand that. I was in the same situation when comparing Carleton and UOttawa, since they are both in Ottawa and UOttawa is closer to parliament and they both have co-op...etc. If you REALLY want to find out the difference between the universities, it really comes down to specific course content. You can go to the websites of both universities and find out what courses you will take all of the 4 years and read program descriptions and everything. Honestly, I did the same thing myself for like 3 other universities other than Uottawa xP.

Anyways, my point is that you should stop worrying! Carleton is a great choice and yes, universities like UofT also have amazing programs, and yes, going to Carleton means you will miss out on those specific oppourtunities that exist at Uoft. But by going to Carleton, you will be having many more oppourtunities that you would not have at UofT. I'm sure by now that you know exactly the kinds of oppourtunities I am talking about ;).

To answer your second question, I chose the BPAPM over the BA in politics and the Global Politics program because:

1 - the Global politics program offered internships, not co-op

2 - going into the BPAPM means graduating with a Bachelors in Public Affairs and Policy Management than just a regular Bachelor in Arts

In terms of where you will end up, going into the BA in poli sci I think allows you more options/more fields to go into, since the subject is broader. The BPAPM is more specialized and going into the direct field of policy-making and other such closely-related related subjects. It's been a couple months since I made my decision, but I think it was because the course content also seemed to suit my tastes a bit more.

If you go onto Carleton's website, you can read the specific course descriptions of ALL the courses you will be taking in BA poli sci spec. in intl. relations and BPAPM spec. in intl. studies, if you REALLY want to find out the differences. As for making a recommendation, I think that should be entirely your decision.

For the math, my friend who took first year economics said the math was the same as the level of math in our high school economics course, and the math we did in this course was simple multiplication, dividing, percents for different situations and lots of graphs and stuff. I never found math in economics too difficult. I think if you are doing well in adv. func. right now then you'll be fine for math in uni-level economics.

Oh, and as for getting into the programs....haven't acceptances already ended? I mean, for Ontario students it said the deadline for accepting a university was like June 2. Idk, is it maybe different for international students, if you are one? Carleton's course selection for first-year students starts next week, just so you know....

Oh, to answer your actual question, I went to a seminar at Carleton and they said the BPAPM program accepts 100 or so students every year (maybe 100-150? I can't exactly remember but it was around the 100 mark), so I think getting in is harder for the BPAPM than it is for the BA in poli sci.

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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
I just finished grade 11 and completed two grade 12 courses this year, so i'm just starting to finalize my decisions right now as years seem to go by so fact, if you know what I mean.

I'm still undecided between U of T and Carleton...however, i will do exactly what you recommend. I know U of T offers more courses in the International Relations field but its not in Ottawa and does not offer a co-op program.

Thanks for all your guy's help.
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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
Would you mind if I asked what your average was?

im expecting this...

AP English 80-85%
AP Social Studies 90-95%
Aboriginal Studies 30 90-95%
French 30 80-85%
Science 30 65-70%

Along with some hefty recommendation letters and solid volunteer hours, would this give me a good shot for BPAPM?

I just finished grade 11 and i've been volunteering all year. I plan on doing the same thing next year as well.

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A photo of GlobalOrder17 GlobalOrder17
Anyone?

Now that I look at the course selection for BPAPM with specialization in International Studies I feel this program fits me best. The only thing i'm hesitant against is the Economics but im pretty sure i share can survive it. Hell, i might even enjoy it considering I love theory just not a big fan of mathematical calculations.
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You should really talk to a recruitment officer about your concerns, either in person if any visit your area or by phone or email. All I can say is, you've still got a year to go in high school, and a lot can change in that time. Best to keep an open mind about your options and pick a school that you'll like all around, just in case you decide to change majors halfway through your undergrad.
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Yes I know, I just sent an E-mail out.

I know you said you dont know too much about Carletons programs but do you think my class averages give me a good shot at acceptance? With extensive volunteer hours and recomendation letters?
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
I'd like to point out that your projected marks are not your actual grade 12 marks, so it's pointless to speculate right now whether you have a good chance.

That said, have you even looked into all the information about Carleton's programs, and, specifically, its poli sci/IR/PAPM programs? From what I've read here ([url]http://www1.carleton.ca/academics/ccms/wp-content/ccms-files/Bachelor_of_Public_Affairs.pdf[/url]), it looks like you only need an average in the low 80s to be competitive. It doesn't even say whether ECs or recommendation letters are part of the application process. (That isn't to say you shouldn't keep doing your ECs, especially if you want to qualify for scholarships.)

I understand you're anxious about the university application process, and believe you me, waiting for decision(s)from universities is pretty painful, but you haven't even applied yet, so just keep doing what you're doing, and you'll probably be fine. Remember, it's pretty easy to get into most Canadian universities with an 80s average. If it's any reassurance, take a look at this (specifically, section B3, which you can access by scrolling down): [url]http://oirp.carleton.ca/cudo/htmlSectionB.html[/url]. Good luck.
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A photo of sevenzeroz sevenzeroz

@GlobalOrder17 wrote
Would you mind if I asked what your average was?

im expecting this...

AP English 80-85%
AP Social Studies 90-95%
Aboriginal Studies 30 90-95%
French 30 80-85%
Science 30 65-70%

Along with some hefty recommendation letters and solid volunteer hours, would this give me a good shot for BPAPM?

I just finished grade 11 and i've been volunteering all year. I plan on doing the same thing next year as well.





My top 6 avg is 88% so I got in fine. As long as you have around an 85% I think you should be fine. They don't really look at any clubs or volunteer hours for BPAPM, because when I applied I didn't have to write any essays or anything of that sort.

Volunteering is still good to do for other programs you are applying to that require extra-curriculars, like UofT, Queens, etc.
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