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BBA or Engineering

A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
Hey guys! I'm new around here, but I've been following these forums for a while now. I just recently received my offer from U of T M. If I go there, I'd be taking BBA. Same with York. However, I'm from Alberta and also applied to U of A for engineering, which I have been accepted into as well. Now, my end goal is to become a lawyer, so most people I know are advising me not to go into engineering since it may kill my chances of scoring a very high GPA. I realize that U of T is a prestigious university and an opportunity like this shouldn't be wasted but I really am confused, seeing as U of A is near home and all my friends will be going there. Any ideas/advice would be appreciated and welcome! :)
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A photo of waazup waazup
What other people said about Engineering is probably true, but may not be (depends on your effort).

Those BBA programs are *ok*. You can score high, enough to get you into law school, which is your main goal.
The engineering would be good for an engineer job, like you said, it might not be enough for Law school.

Tough decision. I'd go with the UTM BBA, or if you change your mind, the engineering is always good.
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
I thought York and U of T were one of the top schools for BBA. I didn't apply to the others, based on rankings and others' assessments of the programs. But I really want a degree that still provides me job prospects even if I choose not to pursue law in the future, or for some reason, it doesn't work out.
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A photo of waazup waazup
Rotman at U of T is great, not sure about UTM Though (I'm guessing it is at Ryerson, Mac level).

Schulich @ York is great, since you didn't mention it I am guessing it is a business program only at York?
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@KD35isaBeast wrote
I thought York and U of T were one of the top schools for BBA. I didn't apply to the others, based on rankings and others' assessments of the programs. But I really want a degree that still provides me job prospects even if I choose not to pursue law in the future, or for some reason, it doesn't work out.


UofT Mississauga BBA is good for accounting and is ok for everything else. If you got into Schulich for BBA, go into it without looking back. :D I am considering law school as well and chose iBBA as my undergraduate because it keeps many options open in case I decide not to pursue law.
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A photo of Pharger Pharger
Posting this in the business section is plainly subjective lol.
Personally, I'd go with engineering because you could always pursue your field of interest then just get an MBA (masters of business administration). This way you could apply your knowledge of engineering into business. You could also save money living at home.
UTMiss, ehh i dont really like them in general because they gave me an offer without applying for it. It shows how desperate they are for money. BUT in terms of business, there are a lot of business opportunities/fields that you can easily explore like accounting, finance, marketing, management etc. Engineering, once you've decided on a field of engineering, you're kinda stuck with that specialization.
Coming out with a bachelors degree, i would honestly say that a business degree can find more jobs than a science degree because of variety and positions out in the world. But again must i remind you that this is a business forum :P.
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
Thanks for the advice everybody. The end result is to become a lawyer, so I'm stuck as far as where to go. And also, U of T M requires at least an 85% so I thought it was quite a good business school. And they didn't acknowledge me until I submitted all my documents. I missed out on Schulich due to a small tragedy. Had a 93% all the way until second semester, but I moved cities twice in the same year and enrolled in 2 high schools other than the one I graduated in. But I've also read that Alberta gets a boost in % due to it being one of the hardest provinces in terms of education. So my 88, I assumed, would be treated as a 90. But, I feel stupid now, since I didn't really get any time to research other business schools, due to the moving and having to catch up throughout the whole school year lol.

EDIT:

Do you guys think it's still possible to switch courses at U of T before/if I go there? Cause now that I know St. George is the real deal, I'm not sure what to do. On the plus side, U of A is a top engineering uni. in Canada lol.
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A photo of Sch18les Sch18les
Only your end goal justifies your question. Otherwise it's engineering all the way. However if you want to be a lawyer you will need a lot of writing and communication practice, so a BBA would suit you better( it is also not difficult to maintain a 3.7+ GPA in a business program). Engineering is most definitely the hardest undergrad program, and unless you are very good at physics and math I don't recommend engineering(plus it will be very hard to maintain a high GPA).
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
So, is U of T's BBA program not one of the best programs in Canada? I was always under this impression, and thus applied to it lol.
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
University of Toronto @ Missisauga is certainly not one of the best BBA programs in Canada lol. It's good for accounting specializations and is really crap for everything else. I would not come down all the way here from Alberta to attend UTM for business, the program is low tier. Choose Alberta, in case you don't get into law school you will have a good back up (B.Eng).
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
Now I feel bad about not applying to the others lol. Even with engineering, I never thought of pursuing it and thus, applied in Alberta. Oh well, maybe I'll transfer to Toronto or Waterloo in the near future. Thanks for help guys, but damn, my gross overestimation of U of T makes me feel quite embarrassed lol.

But any of you know if it's possible to transfer into, let's say, engineering at T right now? Or is there no hope due to the deadline? Lol.
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@KD35isaBeast wrote
Now I feel bad about not applying to the others lol. Even with engineering, I never thought of pursuing it and thus, applied in Alberta. Oh well, maybe I'll transfer to Toronto or Waterloo in the near future. Thanks for help guys, but damn, my gross overestimation of U of T makes me feel quite embarrassed lol.

But any of you know if it's possible to transfer into, let's say, engineering at T right now? Or is there no hope due to the deadline? Lol.


UofT St. George (Rotman) is pretty good for business, but can't say the same about UTM. Chances for you to get into UofT for engineering are close to 0 now, unless you want to start in the winter term instead of fall.

Another option you have is accept your York offer and try to get crazy high marks and get into Schulich for the 2nd year. If that doesn't work, then you can try for Ivey after 2nd year. ;)

Ivey actually has an outstanding business + law programs for 3rd, 4th and 5th years. :)
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
In engineering it matters far more about experience then where you went to school. Especially once you are a P.Eng no one will care about where you went to school. As long as you can get coop experience at UofA you will be fine.

If becoming a lawyer is your end goal then business will be the easier route. However if you are interested in engineering and ok with not getting into law school (it will be much harder) then IMO engineering is better. You can always go from engineering to business.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
I'm no expert so if anyone disagrees with this, just speak out.

If your end goal is to go to law school and become a lawyer, then I see UTM as your best bet because UofT is a very respectable school, and law schools know this. You are much more likely to get a better GPA at UTM for business than you would for UofA for engineering. As previously said, engineering is brutually tough.

UTM is not one of the best schools in Canada. Does that mean it sucks? No, it's still a very respectable school and ahead of the majority of schools. You got to remember, a lot of people on this forum are in the top tier business schools - TO BECOME BUSINESSMEN! You want to be a lawyer, so a respectable school such as UTM should suffice if you have the grades/necessary requirements for a good law school :)
^^
Purely advice/speculation, so some will disagree.
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A photo of Sch18les Sch18les
Also some law schools will just look at your LSAT scores, so it doenst even matter what your undergrad program is. Students who do really well on LSAT are usually one's from writing intensive courses like humanities, social sciences etc
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
Thanks guys for the overwhelming response! I appreciate it. Thing is, that I've always been a high achiever and this year, I was on the path to a 93% average until the setbacks hit. And I've always wanted to go to the best school, even if it would be for undergrad. But I'm surprised that I didn't research this far better than I did (I mean, the best business programs in Canada). Another reason I did less research is because my parents have always looked down upon BCom, and thus, I've never thought of applying in it. I didn't realize it was such a good field tbh. But thanks again everyone!

EDIT: I have another question guys. It's well known that Alberta's high school education system makes it tougher to attain extremely high averages than most other provinces. Do universities consider this when recruiting?
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A photo of ktel ktel
Engineer here. Just graduated from the U of A. Given that you are getting pretty good marks in high school in Alberta, I would guess that you will continue to do well in engineering. This is based on my friends and I, who all got very good GPAs in engineering at U of A. Do you try somewhat in high school? If you already do work in high school, you have the work ethic, which is all you really need. And friends. Lots of friends to help you with homework and studying and everything else.

Take some business courses as electives or take an extra semester in your degree if you feel you need to take more business-y/writing courses to prepare you for the LSAT. That being said engineers tend to score better than business students: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_School_Admission_Test#Scoring
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@KD35isaBeast wrote
EDIT: I have another question guys. It's well known that Alberta's high school education system makes it tougher to attain extremely high averages than most other provinces. Do universities consider this when recruiting?


First time I hear this. I always heard Ontario has the toughest academic system because of the higher population density and bigger competition here. However, I think they are all rumors and I doubt universities take this into consideration.
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A photo of ktel ktel

@MINTOK wrote

@KD35isaBeast wrote
EDIT: I have another question guys. It's well known that Alberta's high school education system makes it tougher to attain extremely high averages than most other provinces. Do universities consider this when recruiting?


First time I hear this. I always heard Ontario has the toughest academic system because of the higher population density and bigger competition here. However, I think they are all rumors and I doubt universities take this into consideration.



It's because Alberta has standardized testing - provincial exams in grade 3, 6 and 9 and diploma exams in grade 12 that are worth 50% of your mark.
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@ktel wrote

@MINTOK wrote

@KD35isaBeast wrote
EDIT: I have another question guys. It's well known that Alberta's high school education system makes it tougher to attain extremely high averages than most other provinces. Do universities consider this when recruiting?


First time I hear this. I always heard Ontario has the toughest academic system because of the higher population density and bigger competition here. However, I think they are all rumors and I doubt universities take this into consideration.



It's because Alberta has standardized testing - provincial exams in grade 3, 6 and 9 and diploma exams in grade 12 that are worth 50% of your mark.



I wish we had standardized testing. Teachers in every school are too subjective. For example, I got the second highest mark in my English class - 84%. The highest mark was 85%. In the beginning of the school year, our teacher told everyone no one will get a 90 in her class. Is that an "easier" system?

However, a friend of mine in a classroom beside got one of the easiest teachers who gives 90s for every piece of work if one mentions Africa in the assignment. The guy doesn't know a difference between a sentence fragment and a run-on sentence, but he got 92%. I would take standardized test any year over this. :)
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A photo of ktel ktel
Well "easy" doesn't necessarily correlate to the mark you get. I think it's whether you're learning the proper material and being prepared adequately for graduating.

I think the diploma exams are nice, and I also thought they were very easy. Some people get very stressed out about them though. I wrote them after my IB exams, so in comparison they were a cake walk. English was tougher for me though because the diploma exam is very different from the IB exam.
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
Thanks for the response ktel! Interesting stat there about engineers beating out businessmen on the LSAT. I'd assume it's due to the fact that logical thinking is one of the most important characteristics for an engineer that they can succeed on LSATs. I'm leaning towards engineering at this moment, since I can save a lot of money,and with coop, earn enough to pay for graduate school. And I do have all of my friends going there, so that aspect really does appeal to me. On the topic of standardized testing, let's just say that in Alberta, a 90 in English is unheard of, unless it is taken in the summer, and you have some serious skill. But grade inflation almost disappears when it comes to these exams since you are taking the same test as every other student in Alberta. Also, teachers are required to keep their class averages around 70% for every class. I took AP, and so my classes had some ridiculous averages haha. Thanks again to everyone who has assisted. I'll keep you guys updated on my decision.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous

@KD35isaBeast wrote
I'm leaning towards engineering at this moment, since I can save a lot of money,and with coop, earn enough to pay for graduate school. And I do have all of my friends going there, so that aspect really does appeal to me.


Seems like you're starting to make a decision. It's obviously biased here as most of us will end up as businessmen haha.

Good luck, hope you do well :)
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A photo of g93 g93

@MINTOK wrote

@ktel wrote

@MINTOK wrote

@KD35isaBeast wrote
EDIT: I have another question guys. It's well known that Alberta's high school education system makes it tougher to attain extremely high averages than most other provinces. Do universities consider this when recruiting?


First time I hear this. I always heard Ontario has the toughest academic system because of the higher population density and bigger competition here. However, I think they are all rumors and I doubt universities take this into consideration.



It's because Alberta has standardized testing - provincial exams in grade 3, 6 and 9 and diploma exams in grade 12 that are worth 50% of your mark.



I wish we had standardized testing. Teachers in every school are too subjective. For example, I got the second highest mark in my English class - 84%. The highest mark was 85%. In the beginning of the school year, our teacher told everyone no one will get a 90 in her class. Is that an "easier" system?

However, a friend of mine in a classroom beside got one of the easiest teachers who gives 90s for every piece of work if one mentions Africa in the assignment. The guy doesn't know a difference between a sentence fragment and a run-on sentence, but he got 92%. I would take standardized test any year over this. :)


Exactly. Not only is there such big differences between schools, but between teachers as well. It also mitigates the effects of getting on a teacher's bad side. Less subjectivity usually. While the standardized testing system has its inherent flaws, it beats the current system.
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A photo of waazup waazup
You can probably score a much better GPA in one of those B schools, than engineering I'm guessing. The stats indicate engineering to score about 5 points higher on average. I guess the 5 points would be worth sacrificing for a better GPA. If you mentioned something like Schulich, then I would go with engineering as it would most likely be easier to achieve a higher or similar GPA.
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A photo of KD35isaBeast KD35isaBeast
I do have a question about the BBA program. So lets say, that one survives the first year and gets 1 of the 60 odd spots available for the BBA program. Then, does it become one of the best programs? Because 300 students compete for those spots starting at the BA level. I'm just wondering, since people say it's extremely tough and what not. Do you guys consider that as a measure of the quality of a school?
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