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Choosing between Laurier BBA/Schulich BBA/ Waterloo AFM-PA for CA

A photo of sab21 sab21
Hey guys, I've been accepted to Laurier BBA, Schulich BBA and Waterloo AFM-PA. I'm planning on pursuing a CA designation and I was wondering which program would be best to accept. I'd really appreciate any feedback or advice on this matter. Thanks :)
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A photo of Bossofbosses Bossofbosses
AFM_PA
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A photo of sab21 sab21
Can you also please give the reasons as to why that particular program is better
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A photo of apark17 apark17
If your set on CA, afm-pa.

Co-op, able to skip 2 exams and Macc.

Pretty much the fast track to being a CA and making 6 digits ;)
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A photo of dbdudgh dbdudgh
Agreed with apark17.
Also, the co-op work terms count towards your CA designation so you'll likely have 16 out of 30 months done when you finish your UFE.
But if you have any doubts and you may want to pursue other things, then Schulich may be better for you because you get no options in AFM-PA.
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A photo of loveshackles loveshackles

@dbdudgh wrote
Agreed with apark17.
Also, the co-op work terms count towards your CA designation so you'll likely have 16 out of 30 months done when you finish your UFE.
But if you have any doubts and you may want to pursue other things, then Schulich may be better for you because you get no options in AFM-PA.




This is wrong. I know people in the PA stream that are working in the financial industry. It's rare, but there are some.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
Schulich or Laurier over AFM-PA

-You will complete the 51 credits within the 4 years(an extra semester at Laurier)

-You pay much less tuition $

-The Masters at Waterloo may allow you to skip 2 exams but you are paying to do so! At either Laurier/Schulich you will be working and earning while doing the 2 easier examinations

-Waterloo has guaranteed Co-op but remember that You can still gain experience at Schulich with internships. Laurier has Co-op which presents you with equal opportunities

-The BBA degree will give you a better Business background which will help out in the Long Run. Able to develop the Business skills needed to climb the corporate ladder

-You would be keeping your options open if you are not dead set on Accounting

Remember that AFM is a great program but I wanted to present the alternative view on this matter. You will not go wrong with any of them but Choose the option that best suits you.
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I would have to say AFM-PA, as I have been accepted to all three of these programs (as well as QC) and the only one of Waterloo/Laurier/Schulich I am considering is Waterloo.

I think people have already highlighted the reasons why you should choose AFM. I also want to point out that the co-op placement fluctuates between 99% and 100%. This is important because not only does it give you valuable work experience, but you need to be working at a CATO in order to write the UFE. Waterloo has the highest % of people in CATO jobs and Big 4 jobs that I have heard of. Another thing is that Waterloo isn't really going to give you much less of a business knowledge. You are still taking fairly similar courses. You have far fewer electives than at Laurier/Schulich, and start right away with financial/managerial accounting, global financial markets, global business or something, and then second year move into corporate or managerial finance. With your limited amount of electives you could take marketing or something, the only part of business that you likely wouldn't get otherwise at Waterloo but would at Schulich/Laurier.

Also consider the school/campus/environment w/e. Can you see yourself at Laurier? Do you like Schulich's campus? Is Waterloo's atmosphere a little dull for you?

Consider these things too. I don't think you can go wrong with any of these schools. I mean you have arguably the best and most prestigious straight up accounting (with some finance) program in the country, although is massively expensive; you have Schulich which is known as one of the best schools all around and even better for accounting, including the highest UFE pass rates; and then you have Laurier which has a great co-op program and the most UFE gold medal winners.
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A photo of sab21 sab21
This is my reasoning when looking at each of the programs. Let me know if there is anything wrong with it

Schulich: It has all the prestige that comes with the program, but it is their MBA which has the prestige. It is more well known for it's post-grad studies rather than the undergrad BBA. There is no co-op within the program, but there are internships. For these internships I have to compete against very strong students (all 90+) so it's not guaranteed. School isn't also known for it's atmosphere.

Waterloo: Their accounting program is the most prestigious only for accounting. A lot of people I talk to say that once you get your CA designation no one really cares where you went for your undergrad so it won't really be a big plus. There is guaranteed co-op but only about 78% get the CATO jobs. It will also be extremely competitive due to the extraneous entrance procedure so it will be difficult to really shine (I didn't get fellowship). It is an extra year of studying, but you end up with a Macc (not sure how useful this is). You do get exempted from the first two exams, but i hear that they aren't too difficult. Also the program is accounting intensive, so if you ever want to move to industry it might be very challenging. This school is also know for being a study school

Laurier: Not as prestigious as Schulich or Waterloo but after getting the CA your undergrad doesn't matter. Even though only 30% get co-op I am very confident I will get in so I am basing my choice on the assumption that I will get the co-op. They also have great co-op jobs and plenty of CATO jobs as well. Only drawback is that you have to spend one extra semester afterward to get all of your hours, but then you can work to get your remaining hours while also preparing for the exams at the same time. Also the degree you get is a BBA so then after you get your CA, you are also qualified to get a top position in industry. Laurier is also known for it's great atmosphere.

Taking all of this into consideration what would be the best choice for getting the CA designation and potentially moving to industry in the future?
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@sab21 wrote
Waterloo: Their accounting program is the most prestigious only for accounting. A lot of people I talk to say that once you get your CA designation no one really cares where you went for your undergrad so it won't really be a big plus. There is guaranteed co-op but only about 78% get the CATO jobs. It will also be extremely competitive due to the extraneous entrance procedure so it will be difficult to really shine (I didn't get fellowship). It is an extra year of studying, but you end up with a Macc (not sure how useful this is). You do get exempted from the first two exams, but i hear that they aren't too difficult. Also the program is accounting intensive, so if you ever want to move to industry it might be very challenging. This school is also know for being a study school


I have been told that at a school like Laurier or Schulich you need a GPA of 10.0 to be seriously considered by the Big 4, while at Waterloo they look at anyone over 8.0 or 9.

I wouldn't be too worried about going from an accounting-intensive program to business. There have been a lot of finance courses added. The thing to be worried about is being stuck in a program that's only other option other than accounting is a mediocre to good finance stream.
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A photo of sab21 sab21
You need an 8.0 to get into co-op and a 10.0 pretty much guarantees a CATO job. There were only 170 people who had at least an 8.0 in the past year. I'm pretty sure an 8.0 is like a 70 while a 10.0 is like an 80?
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@sab21 wrote
You need an 8.0 to get into co-op and a 10.0 pretty much guarantees a CATO job. There were only 170 people who had at least an 8.0 in the past year. I'm pretty sure an 8.0 is like a 70 while a 10.0 is like an 80?


What school are you referring to?
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Username81 wrote:
I agree with dxb2ont and johnnycanuck, but I do believe Queen's and Ivey should be higher in dxb2ont's list. So...
1. AFM-PA (Waterloo)
2. Laurier with Co-op BBA
3. Schulich
4. Queen's
5. Ivey
6. Rotman
7. Brock Accounting (whatever it's actually called)
8. UTM/UTSC. (relatively close so i'll call it a tie ;))
10. McMaster

Mind you this is strictly for accounting and this list would be greatly changed for something such as finance.

johnnycanuck wrote:
Schulich: excellent program, but crappy campus and dull atmosphere so I would prefer not to spend 4 years of my life there if possible
Laurier: great program, co-op, lacks prestige/rep, great atmosphere, I live in the area and many of my friends are going there, always known about it, hot white business girls, but lacking that oomph (not the girls)
Queen's: excellent program, maybe not as well-known for accounting but the second best program in the country, lots of networking events and great carrer centre, Goodes Hall is gorgeous, and the Chancellor's scholarship
Waterloo: the most prestigious accounting program, excellent co-op program, direct entry to the MAcc after BAFM, can skip two exams, lots of Big 4/CATO jobs, slightly limited, live in the area and have known about it for years, campus atmosphere is meh

Basically agree with everything said there, but to the OP, I just want you to know that my list is based solely on academics. (I really dislike Schulich as well and can't see myself being there for 4 years)



If you take the campus life, setting, atmosphere/environment into account Queens, Laurier and Western are much better places to be at then York, UofT or Waterloo. It is important to take these factors into consideration as you will be spending your next 4 years there.

You may find this information useful and relevant.
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A photo of thecookiemonster thecookiemonster
LAURIER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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A photo of sab21 sab21

@johnnycanuck wrote

@sab21 wrote
You need an 8.0 to get into co-op and a 10.0 pretty much guarantees a CATO job. There were only 170 people who had at least an 8.0 in the past year. I'm pretty sure an 8.0 is like a 70 while a 10.0 is like an 80?


What school are you referring to?



I was referring to laurier
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@sab21 wrote

@johnnycanuck wrote

@sab21 wrote
You need an 8.0 to get into co-op and a 10.0 pretty much guarantees a CATO job. There were only 170 people who had at least an 8.0 in the past year. I'm pretty sure an 8.0 is like a 70 while a 10.0 is like an 80?


What school are you referring to?



I was referring to laurier


lol what? You need an 8.0 to get into co-op, so I am pretty sure there was more than 170. And a 10.0 doesn't even guarantee you co-op, much less a CATO job.
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A photo of MoosterM MoosterM
7 = 70-73
8 = 74-76
9 = 77-79
10 - 80-84


You need an 8+ average to get the interview. I know a load of people who could talk with 8 average who got co-op. I also know guys with 10.5 average who didn't get in... I had an 8 and only an average interview, so I didn't get in either. Its about average, interview, and jobs/extracurriculars. There were about 200-235 kids who got into co-op...

Laurier with Co-op is still under Ivey and Schulich, man. It should be number 4 on the list. Ivey is VERY prestige cause you have to compete with everyone in uni and apply in 3rd year. Schulich = where you write the CA exam.. need I say more?

Co-op doesn't always mean a good job. I have friends in co-op who decided to find work themselves outside of what co-op offered. Laurier BBA without co-op = rotman. Laurier has been falling of late because we are accepting more students to earn more money now. There were alot of failures for 1st yrs in 2011.

BUT Laurier still has a great program, especially if you're planning to head into accounting.
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A photo of MoosterM MoosterM
PS.. Laura Allan for winter term is horrible imo. She acts like she cares, but she really doesn't give a $h!^. The key to success in 1st year is to solely study for business exams (2 courses) and memorize EVERYTHING. Don't try to understand. you get marks based on KEY words you put -- meaning you should just memorize it so that the key words will be written. As for electives, if you put in effort a day before each exam, then you will get over B. Worry about business because elective average doesn't matter as long as you get over 63.
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK
Think of all factors that go into your decision. Location, cost, reputation, student body, facilities, etc.

I want to become a CA and I chose Schulich. I didn't even apply to Laurier and Waterloo. Here are my reasons:

Location. Schulich is in Toronto. Staying in the business center of Canada will allow me to network with professionals in the industry, work at a great job while I study, be able to take summer school & intern at one of the BIG 4.

Cost. Schulich only costs about $7500 per year while other schools around at least twice as much. Additionally, I save a lot on residence costs and by choosing TTC over my own car with super high insurance.

CDC. Schulich's Career Development Center is one of the best in North America. It's actually known for baby-sitting its students. I didn't even start my 1st year yet and I've already met with one of the career advisers to polish up my resume and I've went to 4 workshops which actually helped me build my network and overall provided me with professional advantage.

Reputation. I work at Hugo Boss and my clients are partners at law and accounting firms, iBankers, doctors, etc. Once I started telling them I'm in Schulich when they ask if I go to school, I started seeing that my relationship with them changes immediately and I can literally feel their respect towards me jump through the roof of my store. Schulich simply has an outstanding reputation and is ranked as the best business school in Canada for their MBA program in many publications (Economist, Forbes, etc.).

CA preparation. Schulich prepares students well for the CA exams. In fact, Schulich students have the highest passing rate for the UFE among all schools in Canada.

Global perspective. The way business is conducted is rapidly chancing, as more and more companies become international. So far, Schulich is the only school in Canada which offers a truly global perspective to its studies. I think this is going to be a great edge to have, especially by the time we graduate from university.

Alumni. Schulich has a very successful alumni both in Canada and abroad. The schools offers many ways to connect with alumni and even has a mentorship program where students get a mentor, one of the alumni, to receive guidance from on their way to success.

Student body. When I applied, I didn't have this point on my list. I thought my fellow students are either going to be snobby or nerdy. However, I've already met with many people from the class of 2015 through numerous dinners, lunches, BBQs and other hangouts. There get-togethers were not organized by the school, but by students themselves (including me :D ). Everyone turned out to be super fantastic and I cannot wait to study with these people and win case competitions with them!

Advice I can give for you is think of what you want from your school and select the one that needs your personal needs because they are most likely different from mine or anyone else's.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
All three are solid program choices for pursuing your CA. You have to do some research and see which one caters to your needs. Of the three though, admissions is far more selective for Schulich and AFM-PA compared to Laurier.

Here's a thing about co-op vs internships. Waterloo is a 4 year coop program + 8 month Macc and Schulich is a 4 year program. In Waterloo you'll have 16 months of work experience and at Schulich, you won't likely get a CATO internship until your 3rd year summer (Although 1st and 2nd summers are possible). But since it's a 4 year program, you'll hopefully be working right after Schulich and you'll 8 months to catch up which means in 5 years, a Waterloo Student and a Schulich student will have had a similar amount of work experience despite Waterloo being a coop program.

There are lots of pros/cons of both systems. I'll sell UW a little though.

In Waterloo, many students will land big 4 internships in their 1st coop work term in 2nd year. I wouldn't advocate this but I know some UW students who got their big 4 internships and basically considered themselves set for the next few years of their life since you are usually asked to come back from your firm for every coop term and you get a FT offer after graduation. Can you imagine knowing that you are almost set for life in 2nd year of university?

The Macc in UW will exempt you from the first 2 CA exams as well. The time saved overall from the exams though isn't that big of deal in my opinion as they aren't that difficult at all.

I can't back this up with facts, but from what I've heard and seen, I think the most big 4 internships will be given to Waterloo accounting students so basically I think your chances for the big 4 are the highest in UW though if you're a top student, it really doesn't matter.

It should really come down to preference of which university and program you like more. The differences in the quality of the education, career/coop/internship aspects and etc. are not that big.
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A photo of g93 g93
Co-op > Internships for accounting because you are able to work during the busy season. If you get a job in the summer, it's just not the same. Not to mention it will be harder. In many accounting offices they don't even show up on Fridays. Is that the kind of learning atmosphere you want?

As for the school debate, that is http://board.xwponline.net/emoticons/beatingA_DeadHorse.gif

Choose the school YOU feel is best. You can make a case for any school.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@g93 wrote
Co-op > Internships for accounting because you are able to work during the busy season. If you get a job in the summer, it's just not the same. Not to mention it will be harder. In many accounting offices they don't even show up on Fridays. Is that the kind of learning atmosphere you want?

As for the school debate, that is http://board.xwponline.net/emoticons/beatingA_DeadHorse.gif

Choose the school YOU feel is best. You can make a case for any school.



Right, that's a good point I forgot to mention - the timing of your coops are WAY better than those for summer internships.
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A photo of g93 g93
In case anyone was wondering, the OP chose Laurier. Not sure why such an old thread was resurrected anyways.
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