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Choosing between UofT, Waterloo, UBC or Mcmaster

A photo of Morkovk Morkovk
Hi everybody,
I am an international student from Russia and I am going to enter one of canadian universities within a year. All of them have their positive and negative points and I am really torn between them. I want to enter maths/computer/business program
So there is what I know now:

UofT:
pros: high reputation, located in Toronto, a lot of research
cons: highly competitive, the university keeps its GPA low artificcially, so impossible to get high grades, no school spirit or social life, easy to get lost because of its size

Waterloo:
pros: high reputation. good co-op program, much attention to mathematics, located near Toronto
cons: highly compeptitive, no social life, all students are nerds, no white people (no racism, just the fact that it is possible to be alone), poor condition of a gym (important for me), ugly dorms,located in isolated and gloomy town.


UBC:
pros: easy transfer (through Columbia College), beauty of Vancover, reputation as a top university, a lot of research
cons: located in British Columbia (fewer work opportunities), mostly asian, many bad reviews about profs.

Mcmaster:
pros: good social scene, lovely campus, education of high quality, good co-op program (or not?, good maths department, located near Toronto
cons: nothing special, doesn't have a reputation as a top university, possibility of not getting work experience after graduation, poor choice of maths programs.

So, as you can see, I want to achieve a balance between social lofe and academics and get some work experience. What is the best combination for me? I also wonder if the information I have gathered is right and trustworthy.
Please, give your opinion.
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A photo of AgriGen AgriGen
Your descriptions are pretty accurate.. especially for someone not in Canada! Waterloo overall is majority of white people though... certain programs are more minorities. Also.. what program exactly for which university? The reputation of the program is much more important than the reputation of the school. For example.. uoft has the better business program than mcmaster.. waterloo has the better computer science program than uoft.. etc. Where do you want to work afterwards?
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A photo of Morkovk Morkovk
I want to have something like double or joint degree in Mathematics/computers. but if there is any opportnities for studing economics, that will be also pretty good. I heard that double degrees in Waterloo are nearly impossible? And mathematics are very important for me, not computers.
I haven't decided yet.
Afterwards it will be good to work in big company, such as RIM, but it's not easy to get a position.
Thanks for answering.

About Waterloo... is it true about nerdiness there? Cause I don't want to party all time, just have good people around, not some freeks.
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A photo of napinhei napinhei
I can't help you with all the universities you are asking about, but I can offer some insight into two.

U of T:

I've never been to see this university, nor looked into information about it. I do have a friend, though, who went there for a year before transferring somewhere else. She said she hated it because people were snobs. I cannot comment on the validity of that, but I trust her opinion. Also, your comment about white people would be a con to this school, too. From what I hear, there is a very large Asian community at U of T.

Waterloo:

I'd say this is the best place for you if your interest is in math or computers. For those subjects, this university is considered the place to be. I've heard Bill Gates visits the university a lot and apparently hires their graduates heavily. There is also the co-op program. That is a good thing on its own, but considering there is RIM, Google, Sybase, and Open Text all in Waterloo, your co-op opportunities are pretty exciting.

As for things such as social life, the amount of nerds there are, and the lack of white people...

Well, for starters, all universities are made up of many different races. Some might have a higher percentage of one race than another, but you will still find plenty of other races. And though this may be a bit of stereotyping, its not too far off from the truth when I say that yes, the math and computer programs will likely have an extremely high concentration of Asian students. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the majority in computer and math programs all over Canada so you won't escape it no matter where you go. If you look outside your program, though, you will find that there are loads of white people. Who you hang out with is entirely up to you.

And yes, there will probably be a lot of nerds, but think of why. If Waterloo has the best math and computer programs in Canada, why wouldn't nerds flock to the school? It only makes sense! Even so, there isn't anything wrong with that. When you're studying, the best thing you can do is surround yourself with nerds, haha. That said, if you don't want to hang out with incredibly studious people, you don't have to. Just as the case with different races, its all about who you consciously choose to hang out with. You will find people who are socially the same as you are wherever you go so, if you want to be able to relax and have a good time, you will find people who are looking for the same thing.

And if worse comes to worse and you cannot find enough people who want to party, take a five minute drive to Laurier. They are renown for having a good time.
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A photo of iliketurtles iliketurtles
If you want to do math/CS, go to Waterloo hands down. All your negative points about Waterloo are pretty superficial. If you want to be around white people, just walk down the street to Laurier and you'll be fine. Ugly dorms and a bad gym isn't exactly a good reason to discount one of the best universities in the world for math/CS....
Considering you want work experience, Waterloo's co-op easily beats out every other school on your list imo, lol
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A photo of donaldbelfon donaldbelfon
Morwok, I can only provide accurate information to the school I currently attend, UofT. But I hope it will aid in some part in your decision making. While UofT is highly competitive I am not convinced that it should be seen as a con. The competition in school life is important as it not only presses you to do well, it encourages any student to consistently work hard. It's easy to get lost in your social life in your first year of school, I myself came perilously close. But the competition involved with going to classes with your friends and wanting to keep up with the rest of the class is the best way I think to effectively blend your social life with your academic one. Im not sure where you heard that the University keeps its GPA low, as it certainly depends on the student to achieve good results, and its certainly possible. If you get a mark you are not entirely pleased with, you are often encouraged to approach the teacher at UofT. Contrary to popular belief, UofT does have excellent school spirit, its just structured a little differently because of its size. A lot of UofT's school spirit is derived from the collegiate system. It definitely exists, just come out to our orientation week parade! Finally, every new setting will be difficult to adjust to, but realistically after being there for even a week, you won't get lost on campus. Its nowhere near as extensive as you make it out to seem.

Also, I see that gym conditions are quite important. UofT has a wide variety of gyms, sports teams, and facilities that are all top tiered in their respective fields. UofT is also in the process of building a brand new athletic facility to house various basketball courts, a new gym, weightlifting room and more!

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A photo of cyynthiia cyynthiia
I can provide a little bit of insight on UBC as I do go there currently.
It is true that a lot of transfer students get in to UBC, I know of quite a few! We are also a research intensive university.

What faculty are you trying to transfer in to? The job prospects thing isn't true. It highly depends on the profession. It may be a little harder to find a job in Vancouver, but if you go on to Vancouver Island or in to the interior/north, you'll have a much easier time finding a job. The same thing can be said any big school, such as U of T.

I'm sorry, but I find one of your points quite offensive considering I am Asian. I don't see why that would be a con in any way..? There are a LOT of Asians at U of T and Waterloo, by the way.. so I don't see how that would be a bad thing. They won't affect your overall experience as a university student, I can tell you that much. UBC isn't actually 100% Asian, I know of a lot of Caucasians and Europeans in ALL of my classes.

As for the profs, you just have to be smart enough to pick the good sections with the "good" profs. A lot of those reviews on ratemyprof are also about 4-5 years old, so their teaching styles may have changed. I've had an English prof who's rating was 2.2 on that site, but I ended up liking her and doing very well in the course.. so those ratings are very objective and don't account for much else other than personal experience.

If you have any other questions about UBC, feel free to message me.
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A photo of Academentia Academentia

I'm sorry, but I find one of your points quite offensive considering I am Asian. I don't see why that would be a con in any way..? There are a LOT of Asians at U of T and Waterloo, by the way.



While I can't know what the person means when they say that, it doesn't have to be offensive. What I mean is people like to and tend to hang out with similar others- whether its background, or studious or like to party. I walk around UBC all the time and you'll see lots of segregation. Why is that?

And you see tons and tons of these questions/concerns about all kinds of factors on here where people are looking for similar others. Asians will talk about Queen's being too white or others saying 'its rich kids'. Asians tend toward Waterloo and U of T, but not Queens and McGill so much.

And lets face it, if you are in math or compsci or eng at UBC, relatively few europeans). Sure you can always 'find your people' (nerds, jocks, studious, or particular backgrounds/interests) on any big campus but can't knock someone for looking at where they feel they will belong the most.
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A photo of johneidude johneidude
If you go to an Math/CS program, the majority (not all) of the people there will be nerds and the majority will be Asian. I study at UBC, and I have taken a few computer science courses (I am a Business major), and the majority of the students there are damn nerds and awkward as hell. It is actually annoying, you would try and talk to them and they would be awkward/shy. They were such a contrast to the business students, where they were outgoing, and just great individuals. Anyway my point is, if you do go into Math/CS, most of the students you meet there will be nerds, no matter what school you go to.

As for the Asian part, yes UBC has a lot of Asians, but it also has a lot of non-asians. There are people from all backgrounds, and well frankly if you live on Rez, you will meet a lot of friends and people that you can hang out and become life long friends with. Furthermore, UBC has the best Greek system in Canada. The majority of people in fraternities and sororities are white, so by joining a fraternity, you could surround yourself with the type of people that you want to hang out with. That being said, University is a place where you hangout with people regardless of their skin color and background. At UBC (i cant comment on the other schools) I hang out with people of all colors, granted most of the people are non FOB people (the FOB ones can be annoying and socially awkward though). Also, UBC has one of the best Economics programs in Canada. Do note that I am biased towards UBC though so take this with a grain of salt.

As for the quality of the professors, ratemyprof is not a very good source (granted it is the only one). Generally, only the idiots and only the disgruntled students will post on it. These are the same students who either did not put in the effort, are not very smart, and are the ones who always blame others for their grades (like saying the prof sucked) rather than looking at themselves and finding their own fault. Generally, such places get the negative reviews, and a few positive ones.

Another note, disregard McMaster. Out of the 4 it is the worst school, and if you want to work internationally, the school has very little international recognition, unlike UofT, UBC and Waterloo.

On another note: Ya iz odin ctran CCCP i ya uchus v Vancouvere, ochen haroshiy gorod, i UBC ochen horoshaya schola. Da zdes yest mnogo azeatov, no zdec toje yest mnogo evropeets, y rossian.
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A photo of Morkovk Morkovk
Thank you all for your assistance, all answers are very helpful, especially first-hand ones.



I'm sorry, but I find one of your points quite offensive considering I am Asian. I don't see why that would be a con in any way..? There are a LOT of Asians at U of T and Waterloo, by the way.


While I can't know what the person means when they say that, it doesn't have to be offensive. What I mean is people like to and tend to hang out with similar others- whether its background, or studious or like to party. I walk around UBC all the time and you'll see lots of segregation. Why is that?

And you see tons and tons of these questions/concerns about all kinds of factors on here where people are looking for similar others. Asians will talk about Queen's being too white or others saying 'its rich kids'. Asians tend toward Waterloo and U of T, but not Queens and McGill so much.


Exactly. I am worried about a social scene because I will be far far from home, have a lot of study to do and I don't want to struggle to make friendships or be alone. And you can't deny that Asians and Europeans have quite different background so I don't think they get on well immediatedly. That's why in the first year everyone hangs out mostly with their own race.
And this is what all clubs are made for. So, if there's none of them, like in Waterloo, it's difficult to get to know each other, and that is what I am afraid of.


That said, if you don't want to hang out with incredibly studious people, you don't have to. Just as the case with different races, its all about who you consciously choose to hang out with.


Will I have enough time to choose when I have an impossible workload to cope with?

donaldbelfon, thank you a lot. Can I ask, do you live on campus?

but realistically after being there for even a week, you won't get lost on campus


Honestly speaking, I was talking about being just a number, not a person to profs and thus lacking help and advice.


If you go to an Math/CS program, the majority (not all) of the people there will be nerds and the majority will be Asian. I study at UBC, and I have taken a few computer science courses (I am a Business major), and the majority of the students there are damn nerds and awkward as hell. It is actually annoying, you would try and talk to them and they would be awkward/shy. They were such a contrast to the business students, where they were outgoing, and just great individuals. Anyway my point is, if you do go into Math/CS, most of the students you meet there will be nerds, no matter what school you go to.


This is really a sad thing. Whay is it so? Cause I am a normal girl, who likes going out, wants to have a good-looking boyfriend, but at the same time I like maths very much and want to build a good career. I start to think that it is impossible to do it simulteneously. Not good(((((


Another note, disregard McMaster. Out of the 4 it is the worst school, and if you want to work internationally, the school has very little international recognition, unlike UofT, UBC and Waterloo.



Really, Oh, thanks for telling, O thought it is quite a respected school. I am not sure about working internationally, though, I just don't want to be rejected by canadian employers.


On another note: Ya iz odin ctran CCCP i ya uchus v Vancouvere, ochen haroshiy gorod, i UBC ochen horoshaya schola. Da zdes yest mnogo azeatov, no zdec toje yest mnogo evropeets, y rossian.


Oh, dude, I like it so much! Well, please, if you don't mind, can you tell me how did you transfer to UBC? I know only one way - through Columbia College and I am not sure whether it is a good way.


What faculty are you trying to transfer in to? The job prospects thing isn't true. It highly depends on the profession. It may be a little harder to find a job in Vancouver, but if you go on to Vancouver Island or in to the interior/north, you'll have a much easier time finding a job. The same thing can be said any big school, such as U of T.


Is it really so? I mean, I want to be sure that I will find a job if I study in Vancouver, otherwise I will have to go to my motherland immediatedly without any work experience, which will be frustrating, consdering the sound sum that will be paid for my education.


If you want to do math/CS, go to Waterloo hands down. All your negative points about Waterloo are pretty superficial. If you want to be around white people, just walk down the street to Laurier and you'll be fine. Ugly dorms and a bad gym isn't exactly a good reason to discount one of the best universities in the world for math/CS....
Considering you want work experience, Waterloo's co-op easily beats out every other school on your list imo, lol



As for things such as social life, the amount of nerds there are, and the lack of white people...

Well, for starters, all universities are made up of many different races. Some might have a higher percentage of one race than another, but you will still find plenty of other races. And though this may be a bit of stereotyping, its not too far off from the truth when I say that yes, the math and computer programs will likely have an extremely high concentration of Asian students. I wouldn't be surprised if they were the majority in computer and math programs all over Canada so you won't escape it no matter where you go. If you look outside your program, though, you will find that there are loads of white people. Who you hang out with is entirely up to you.

And yes, there will probably be a lot of nerds, but think of why. If Waterloo has the best math and computer programs in Canada, why wouldn't nerds flock to the school? It only makes sense! Even so, there isn't anything wrong with that. When you're studying, the best thing you can do is surround yourself with nerds, haha. That said, if you don't want to hang out with incredibly studious people, you don't have to. Just as the case with different races, its all about who you consciously choose to hang out with. You will find people who are socially the same as you are wherever you go so, if you want to be able to relax and have a good time, you will find people who are looking for the same thing.


Yes, this is what everybody says. But nobody actually goes to Waterloo.) Everybody picks less depressing place to spend five years of their youth)
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A photo of caveman caveman
I'm a current Waterloo student, so I'll see if I can help out.

@Morkovk wrote

Exactly. I am worried about a social scene because I will be far far from home, have a lot of study to do and I don't want to struggle to make friendships or be alone. And you can't deny that Asians and Europeans have quite different background so I don't think they get on well immediatedly. That's why in the first year everyone hangs out mostly with their own race.
And this is what all clubs are made for. So, if there's none of them, like in Waterloo, it's difficult to get to know each other, and that is what I am afraid of.[/QUOTE]
First, Waterloo does in fact have a social scene. It's just that as an academic-heavy school that attracts some less social people, it's not a party-heavy school (similar to UofT). But if you want to party or just hang out, you will find people to do that with. Also, Laurier (another university) is literally a 5 minute walk down the road. The school is known as a very relaxed, party-school (with a significant white population, I might add). Students at the two schools are quite connected, and between the two schools and all around there is student housing, and often students from both schools share rooms or live in the same building.

Second, not everyone at Waterloo is Asian. There are some programs that do have an Asian majority, but there are others that have a white-majority. Don't worry about it.

Third, Waterloo has a ton of clubs. There's a club for everything, and if there's one you feel should be there that isn't, start it yourself! There's a club for people to taste cheeses, no joke. There's also lots of intramural sports. There you'll often find more outgoing people, and people who don't feel the need to study all night or shut themselves in their room and play LoL. There's intramurals for all skill levels too. If you play intramural hockey, you'll be sure to find white people too.
[QUOTE=Morkov]
That said, if you don't want to hang out with incredibly studious people, you don't have to. Just as the case with different races, its all about who you consciously choose to hang out with.


Will I have enough time to choose when I have an impossible workload to cope with?


Yes, you will. Also, people love to make their workload seem much worse than it is. And people also love to procrastinate and spend way too long on simple things or try to do homework with Facebook up and their phone out and it ends up taking forever, when there's really not much work to be done.

@Morkov wrote

Honestly speaking, I was talking about being just a number, not a person to profs and thus lacking help and advice.


Anywhere you go (except maybe really small schools) you'll wind up with large classes, and you'll wind up with some profs who will try their best to treat students like individuals and be personable with them (no small task if you have 200-400 students) and you'll have some who show up, lecture, then leave. But most profs, and not just at Waterloo, are always willing to help you out. Go to their office hours, ask to make an appointment with them, and they're going to help you and they'll love to work through problems with you, or often times just chat with you if that's what you'd like. Some profs are also welcome to people talking to them before/after class, and if you're in smaller classes (usually upper years) there's much more interaction.


@Morkov wrote

This is really a sad thing. Whay is it so? Cause I am a normal girl, who likes going out, wants to have a good-looking boyfriend, but at the same time I like maths very much and want to build a good career. I start to think that it is impossible to do it simulteneously. Not good(((((


There are normal people in these programs. Trust me. Even if you can't find them, go join a club, get involved, and meet some people (search for a really good-looking boyfriend during frosh week if you want). You can have both.

_________________
Now, have you considered the Double Degree (Bachelor of Math/Bachelor of Business Administration and Bachelor of CompSci/Bachelor of Business Administration) programs offered jointly between Waterloo and Laurier? Laurier has a great business school, and Waterloo is one of if not the top school in Canada for math/compsci. You take courses in both disciplines and graduate with two degrees. There's a great co-op program (can help ensure that you have a job post-grad) and the program has an amazing reputation. What's more, you get to go to both schools. So, you'll be meeting more of the business students at Laurier who are outgoing, and you'll still have your math/compsci study buddies at Waterloo.

Have you considered a math/cs degree at Western with a degree from Richard Ivey School of Business? Western might not be as good as Waterloo/UofT/UBC for math/cs, but it's a good school, and Ivey is often regarded as the top business school in Canada. There's lots of outgoing students there (and many of them are white)- that's part of what makes Ivey so good- if the students are socially awkward, you learn to become sociable or you're out fast. It's worth a look.

Have you also considered just a business degree? You could go somewhere like Queen's, which has one of the best business programs in Canada and is known for it's outgoing, majority white, and party-loving (yet still academically-oriented) student population. Worth a look as well (and you may be able to do a double degree there too, but it'd probably be a ton of work and take you longer). Might be worth a look.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
Go to Waterloo. It's the best school in Canada for the type of program you're doing.
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A photo of iliketurtles iliketurtles

@Morkovk wrote

Yes, this is what everybody says. But nobody actually goes to Waterloo.) Everybody picks less depressing place to spend five years of their youth)


My brother and cousin both go to Waterloo. My brother went for engineering, he's now in math and my cousin is in CS. I will tell that they admitted that Waterloo's social scene is not the greatest, but you will survive trust me. If you don't want to hang out with Asians so much I'm telling you, you can walk about 10 minutes off campus to Laurier where it is probably 80%+ white people (just a random guess). The job prospects and education you will get at Waterloo easily outweighs the lack of "fun" you'll have compared to being in a big city. Why not just tolerate 4/5 years of being in Waterloo so you can live the rest (40+ years hopefully) of your life comfortably with a great job and great connections? Not saying you can't get those at other schools, but I'd say Waterloo gives you the best chance.
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A photo of Morkovk Morkovk


First, Waterloo does in fact have a social scene. It's just that as an academic-heavy school that attracts some less social people, it's not a party-heavy school (similar to UofT). But if you want to party or just hang out, you will find people to do that with. Also, Laurier (another university) is literally a 5 minute walk down the road. The school is known as a very relaxed, party-school (with a significant white population, I might add). Students at the two schools are quite connected, and between the two schools and all around there is student housing, and often students from both schools share rooms or live in the same building.

Second, not everyone at Waterloo is Asian. There are some programs that do have an Asian majority, but there are others that have a white-majority. Don't worry about it.

Third, Waterloo has a ton of clubs. There's a club for everything, and if there's one you feel should be there that isn't, start it yourself! There's a club for people to taste cheeses, no joke. There's also lots of intramural sports. There you'll often find more outgoing people, and people who don't feel the need to study all night or shut themselves in their room and play LoL. There's intramurals for all skill levels too. If you play intramural hockey, you'll be sure to find white people too.


Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. Sport is also very important. Anyway, I will have to have a lot of energy to keep up with studing and socializing!


Now, have you considered the Double Degree (Bachelor of Math/Bachelor of Business Administration and Bachelor of CompSci/Bachelor of Business Administration) programs offered jointly between Waterloo and Laurier? Laurier has a great business school, and Waterloo is one of if not the top school in Canada for math/compsci. You take courses in both disciplines and graduate with two degrees. There's a great co-op program (can help ensure that you have a job post-grad) and the program has an amazing reputation. What's more, you get to go to both schools. So, you'll be meeting more of the business students at Laurier who are outgoing, and you'll still have your math/compsci study buddies at Waterloo.


Thank you for a good advice, I am thinking about that. I really can't choose between Maths (which I like), CS (which is essential in any field) and Business (where money is).


Have you considered a math/cs degree at Western with a degree from Richard Ivey School of Business? Western might not be as good as Waterloo/UofT/UBC for math/cs, but it's a good school, and Ivey is often regarded as the top business school in Canada. There's lots of outgoing students there (and many of them are white)- that's part of what makes Ivey so good- if the students are socially awkward, you learn to become sociable or you're out fast. It's worth a look.


I think it's in any case better to graduate from a top school. And education is, of course, more important than social life, no one would dispute.


ave you also considered just a business degree? You could go somewhere like Queen's, which has one of the best business programs in Canada and is known for it's outgoing, majority white, and party-loving (yet still academically-oriented) student population. Worth a look as well (and you may be able to do a double degree there too, but it'd probably be a ton of work and take you longer). Might be worth a look.


Just business is boring, everybody does it. There is nothing specaial about a business degree and thus it won't appeal to employers. Or do I misunderstand anything? But anyway, your suggestions are wonderful, thank you.


Why not just tolerate 4/5 years of being in Waterloo so you can live the rest (40+ years hopefully) of your life comfortably with a great job and great connections? Not saying you can't get those at other schools, but I'd say Waterloo gives you the best chance.


I think it is what most Waterloo students do. I just need to be ensured that it's really worth it. Because if Waterloo graduates don't have advantage over others, than by bother going there and tolerating?
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A photo of cyynthiia cyynthiia
Fair enough.
With respect to what you said about clubs, you'd be surprised at the amount of diversity we have in clubs.
At UBC, they have constitutions dedicated to international students, and not just of the Asian descent.
We have clubs for every culture, every race, and every kind of background at UBC too.
I can bet you that there is a Russian Students Association.
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A photo of napinhei napinhei

@Morkovk wrote
Yes, this is what everybody says. But nobody actually goes to Waterloo.) Everybody picks less depressing place to spend five years of their youth)



I don't currently go to Waterloo, but it is most definitely my top choice. I have no desire at all to go anywhere else. Also, I don't consider it to be a depressing place at all. Though, that is merely an opinion. I don't have anything that can really prove it to you.
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A photo of johneidude johneidude
I did not transfer into UBC, I was admitted as a direct entrance student from HS. So to answer your question I dont know how you can transfer in, I would assume that if you just apply with HS grades then you would get in, but I dont know.

The other thing is that if you want, you can try and apply for the UBC Combined Major Business and Computer Science program (BUCS). This program is a essentially like a dual degree. You take all the 1st and 2nd year courses required for Business students, but instead of having electives, you take the computer science courses (in year 1 and 2). In year 3 and 4, you take all the required 3rd and 4th year computer science courses, and you also take Business MIS courses (Management Information Systems), the ones that are required for the MIS/BTM specialization. If you do this program, you will have classes with people who are outgoing and very social (the Business courses), but also have the ability to take CS courses.

As for the social scene, UBC is its own campus. Everything is in one place, all the classes, the book store, place to eat (restaurants), pubs, a club, grocery stores and etc. It has a decent school spirit. On top of that, you could join a Sorority, where most of the girls in the Sorority are Caucasian (we have 8 sororities on campus). Every week, sororities have exchanges with us (the Fraternities) where you get to know each other, do fun activities, and then party together (beer pong, go to club, etc). Most of the people in a Fraternity are also white (80%). Also, there is a UBC Russian Club so that should not be an issue.

I cant comment on the other schools, but in terms of UBC, Vancouver is a great city. Lots of different things to do (great restaurants, great night life), you can go out and drink, watch hockey games, go and snowboard at Whistler (or one of the other mountains). We also have several beaches, and it is a great city. So if you are worried about being in a depressing city, well Vancouver is not one of those (granted it rains a lot here).

Also, in terms of meeting people, almost no matter what University you go to, they have student residence. This is where a lot of the 1st year people live. If you pick the right residence, you will live on a floor with very social people, and be able to make friends quickly. In terms of UBC, both Totem Park and Vanier are 1st year residences, where people meet each other and make life long friendships.

In terms of relationship, the whole point of University is to meet new people. Being in a relationship makes that much harder, and 1st year is meant to be fun where one just enjoys the University version of the single life.
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If you are interested in mathematics, Waterloo hands down has the best undergraduate mathematics programs in the country. Many of the fourth year courses here are double-listed as graduate courses because graduates from other universities have not covered the amount of material fourth years at Waterloo have.

Waterloo also has a very strong undergraduate CS program.

For a graduate program, I think more of the arguments of reputation would apply; it doesn't matter so much for undergrad. But Waterloo has the best undergraduate *programs*, and a good reputation to top it off. I'd say based on your interest in math, it's a no-brainer.
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I know nothing about math.. just out of curiosity why does uw have the strongest undergrad math prgm? Who else is strong and how far are they from us?
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@Morkovk wrote

Thank you, this is exactly what I wanted to hear. Sport is also very important. Anyway, I will have to have a lot of energy to keep up with studing and socializing!

o problem! I find sports are a great way to release all of your energy- it just builds up when studying/sitting in class. It's good to get active and moving.


@Morkovk wrote

Thank you for a good advice, I am thinking about that. I really can't choose between Maths (which I like), CS (which is essential in any field) and Business (where money is).

ell with the DD you would only have to eliminate 1/3, and you can always switch from Math -> CS and CS -> Math, and you can always drop the business (and then you could even add math/cs). I'm not trying to pressure you into it or something btw :)

[quote-Morkovk]
I think it's in any case better to graduate from a top school. And education is, of course, more important than social life, no one would dispute.[/quote]
Well, Western is a good school and Ivey is an elite business program. It's well regarded in the US, and many students are able to land jobs on Bay Street/Wall Street, and other great places. But if you're leaning more towards math/cs, Waterloo (or UofT or UBC) is a better bet.


@Morkovk wrote

Just business is boring, everybody does it. There is nothing specaial about a business degree and thus it won't appeal to employers. Or do I misunderstand anything? But anyway, your suggestions are wonderful, thank you.


If you go to a top business program you learn more of the "soft skills" that can help you succeed. The reputations of the programs are second to none and recruiters from top companies actively hire at these elite business schools. So, the path to a good job is well traveled. You're not really treated the same as other business grads. But if you want to get into math/cs, and aren't just interested in them to leverage them into a high-paying business job, don't go for the business single degree programs.


Why not just tolerate 4/5 years of being in Waterloo so you can live the rest (40+ years hopefully) of your life comfortably with a great job and great connections? Not saying you can't get those at other schools, but I'd say Waterloo gives you the best chance.


I think it is what most Waterloo students do. I just need to be ensured that it's really worth it. Because if Waterloo graduates don't have advantage over others, than by bother going there and tolerating?[/quote]
Waterloo has co-op, which gives you a great chance to gain some work experience. Often you can be graduating making good money or you can be hired by a firm you did a workterm at. Waterloo has a great rep for its undergraduate programs and the students are quite successful on average. Life's what you make of it. I personally considered not going to Waterloo- while it was the best school academically, there were other good schools that offered a better and more lively atmosphere with more outgoing and active students. I chose to come to Waterloo, and so now I try to make it fun! Join some clubs, find some friends to hang out with, play some sports, explore the city, and if you can find someone with a car- there's so many great things to do in Ontario, and all you need is to set aside 2-6 hours on a weekend and you can make an adventure!
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Waterloo for Math/Comp sci. UofT for Business.

And I dont know where your standards lie, but Mcmaster does have a really high reputation both domestically and internationally (higher than waterloo according to topuniversities.com)
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