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A photo of g93 g93
Have questions about the business world (specifically accounting and the designations), admissions to accounting and business programs, or any questions in general?

Feel free to ask them here, or better yet PM me (fastest way to get a response). I have the requisite knowledge to answer most of the questions high school students have to ask, and if not I will be able to talk to someone who will know the answer or perhaps will be able to direct you to someone on the forum who would be better suited to answer your questions.
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A photo of snowbunny snowbunny
Not sure if you can help but do you know the difference between •Mathematics/Business Administration & •Mathematical Economics? Also do you know what the cutoff marks are for these 2 prgs?

Is •Business Administration (WLU) and Computer Science (Waterloo) Double Degree hard and what is the cut-off for this?

Do you have any suggestions of what to study, I want to do business but not accounting?
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A photo of g93 g93
I'm assuming you're talking about the single degree?

After 1st year you can choose to go into Mathematical Economics (if you are in good academic standing it is automatic entry). Economics is different from business. That is the difference between the two programs. If economics is something that interests you, perhaps you should consider this. You still would have the option to stay in the Math/Business program. Admissions-wise you are looking at mid-80s. Anything high-80s and over you are golden.

The WLU/UW DD program is definitely more difficult than just a regular business program- you are completing two degrees. Be prepared to work hard for your marks. That being said the averages of DD students are fairly high (~80%) and it is far from impossible to keep up with the work and have time for ECs and social activities. Admissions wise I'm not sure if there is an actual cutoff given, but most DD students have averages in the 90s, although there are some with averages in the high 80s. If you apply from both the Waterloo and Laurier side it will increase your chances of getting in.

I would recommend you get in contact with NickOrz (sp?) - used to be noxx98 - who is a 2nd or 3rd year CompSci DD student at Laurier. He made a thread for people to ask him stuff so don't be shy.

Any business program will be good- Queen's, Western/Ivey, Schulich, Laurier, Rotman, McMaster, Ryerson, etc.

If you are interested in DDs there is also the Western/Ivey option that is fairly common.
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A photo of plaidboy plaidboy
Hey g93,

As an alternative to Waterloo Engineering, I have also decided to look into some commerce/business/finance programs. I absolutely hate accounting, and I love math. I found a program called FARM, or Financial Analysis and Risk Management. Can you tell me more about this program? I want to know what it specializes in, how the job market is for the field, how the earnings are, and also the average for admission needed. I heard that last year more people applied to the DD and less people applied to FARM, which decreased the average significantly but I'm not sure about this year. Finally, I also want to know if you got any other ideas on programs I should apply to in Waterloo that are finance/commerce as a backup. What's the max. amount of programs I can apply to in Waterloo btw?
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A photo of g93 g93

@plaidboy wrote
Hey g93,

As an alternative to Waterloo Engineering, I have also decided to look into some commerce/business/finance programs. I absolutely hate accounting, and I love math. I found a program called FARM, or Financial Analysis and Risk Management. Can you tell me more about this program? I want to know what it specializes in, how the job market is for the field, how the earnings are, and also the average for admission needed. I heard that last year more people applied to the DD and less people applied to FARM, which decreased the average significantly but I'm not sure about this year. Finally, I also want to know if you got any other ideas on programs I should apply to in Waterloo that are finance/commerce as a backup. What's the max. amount of programs I can apply to in Waterloo btw?


The FARM program combines math/business/stats/finance/economics/comp sci all into one. The two main areas are:

Financial Analysis: using financial statements for valuation, risk assessment, investments, etc., and the common designation pursued is the CFA designation.

Risk Management: the common designation pursued is the PRM designation (google for more info)

You can also pursue the CFP designation (and there are some other less-common ones).
If you are interested in this program I would recommend you attend one of the information sessions and try and talk to someone who is very knowledgeable about this program. My understanding of this program and the functional areas it focuses on doesn't go very far, but if you speak to someone about it they will have the requisite knowledge to give you an in-depth rundown of all it has to offer, while keeping it fairly simple.

This program is slightly constrictive, although the skills you learn could be applied to a number of different positions. I would suggest that it is best to enter this program only if you are confident that what this program trains you for is what you are interested in.

The job market for this field is quite good at the present time, and unlike something like accounting there are no widespread predictions of a major logjam in the near future. The earnings are pretty good. There is definitely money that can be made, but do not expect anything extremely lucrative for the most part.

Admissions is from the high 80s. So if you are 90 or over you are pretty safe. Anything in the high 80s should be fine, but no guarantees. I don't know the admissions of this program specifically so I cannot tell you what the normal marks are from people and whether or not it has increased/decreased.

You can only apply to 3 programs at a university. The only other programs would be the Waterloo/Laurier DD, AFM (you would only have to endure 4 accounting courses and the rest could be finance) and Mathematics (then pursue Mathematical Finance).
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A photo of iliketurtles iliketurtles
How do the job prospects compare for a student who specializes in something like mathematical economics or finance as opposed to a student who's majoring in finance in a business program? I realize this question is very broad, sorry :S
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
Mathematical Economics and Finance are more pure subjects in the sense that you will probably want to pursue graduate studies in them after your undergrad.

Doing finance in a business program, or math/cs + business/farm is more geared towards coop/jobs.

For all those interested in Math/Business programs, there's a lot of overlap in Math/FARM and Math/Business DD in terms of jobs but generally the DDs are more respected and have accomplished more.
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A photo of Trickster Trickster
I have a couple of questions about Waterloo AFM PA or FM.

What marks do they count to write the AFMAA? Do they count your second semester mid-term marks? I'm asking this because I have both Advanced Functions and Calculus second semester, and they are both requirements for the program...

Are you aware of any recent year's average admission percentages for both programs? If you don't, what is your estimate?

How difficult, compared to other business programs in Canada, would you estimate it is to get into Waterloo AFM PA/FM?

Thanks.
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A photo of Trickster Trickster
Oh and also is it possible to be a CA if you're in the FM stream?
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A photo of g93 g93

@Trickster wrote
I have a couple of questions about Waterloo AFM PA or FM.

What marks do they count to write the AFMAA? Do they count your second semester mid-term marks? I'm asking this because I have both Advanced Functions and Calculus second semester, and they are both requirements for the program...

Are you aware of any recent year's average admission percentages for both programs? If you don't, what is your estimate?

How difficult, compared to other business programs in Canada, would you estimate it is to get into Waterloo AFM PA/FM?

Thanks.


Invites to the AFMAA get sent out beginning in early March (the date of the AFMAA last year was April 2nd btw). At this point, the only marks the universities have is your Grade 11 final marks and Grade 12 1st semester final marks, no 2nd semester midterms yet.

If you do not have prerequisites completed, they will look at the Grade 11 equivalent (so they will look at Grade 11 Functions instead of Grade 12 Advanced Functions, for example). I'm not 100% sure what they do for calc, since it seems like 90% of people have it in second semester. I'm not sure whether they choose not to include it, or whether they use Advanced Functions or Gr 11 Functions twice or something.

I have not heard anything about my year's admission averages, but the year prior was reportedly 92 for PA and 89 for FM. I definitely don't think there would be a big change between my year and the year prior, although if I had to guess I would say it went up if it did change.

I would rank PA up there with any program, and FM just a tad lower. But PA has similar admission averages to top schools such as Queen's and Ivey, and unlike programs such as Schulich or McGill that are only concerned with marks (Schulich claims they're not) there is a big emphasis on ECs and then there is the AFMAA, which is quite unique. The AFMAA certainly poses a challenge to some people so applying to AFM is a bit different than applying for say Ivey AEO.

And yes it is possible to get your CA through the FM stream. The streams are just co-op streams. You can specialize in Public Accounting (CA), Management Accounting (CMA) or Finance (CFA) from either PA or FM.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
I've heard the PA stream got seriously cut down this term and UW only took about 50-60 kids. Not sure about the legitimacy of this.
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A photo of Trickster Trickster

@g93 wrote

@Trickster wrote
I have a couple of questions about Waterloo AFM PA or FM.

What marks do they count to write the AFMAA? Do they count your second semester mid-term marks? I'm asking this because I have both Advanced Functions and Calculus second semester, and they are both requirements for the program...

Are you aware of any recent year's average admission percentages for both programs? If you don't, what is your estimate?

How difficult, compared to other business programs in Canada, would you estimate it is to get into Waterloo AFM PA/FM?

Thanks.


Invites to the AFMAA get sent out beginning in early March (the date of the AFMAA last year was April 2nd btw). At this point, the only marks the universities have is your Grade 11 final marks and Grade 12 1st semester final marks, no 2nd semester midterms yet.

If you do not have prerequisites completed, they will look at the Grade 11 equivalent (so they will look at Grade 11 Functions instead of Grade 12 Advanced Functions, for example). I'm not 100% sure what they do for calc, since it seems like 90% of people have it in second semester. I'm not sure whether they choose not to include it, or whether they use Advanced Functions or Gr 11 Functions twice or something.

I have not heard anything about my year's admission averages, but the year prior was reportedly 92 for PA and 89 for FM. I definitely don't think there would be a big change between my year and the year prior, although if I had to guess I would say it went up if it did change.

I would rank PA up there with any program, and FM just a tad lower. But PA has similar admission averages to top schools such as Queen's and Ivey, and unlike programs such as Schulich or McGill that are only concerned with marks (Schulich claims they're not) there is a big emphasis on ECs and then there is the AFMAA, which is quite unique. The AFMAA certainly poses a challenge to some people so applying to AFM is a bit different than applying for say Ivey AEO.



But what if my Grade 11 Functions mark is a 67...

I'm confident that I can raise my math marks up to a 90 next semester because ive been doing the textbook my school uses over the summer. How will my invite be affected?? I have 2 Grade 12 marks I did last semester, one a 91 and the other a 93. My marks so far this semester have been above 95 (i also have english this semester) and im pretty sure i can pull off a 93 or so average with only my grade 12 marks this semester and last semester. Would they really count my Grade 11 functions mark twice? Oh my god man i'm dying right now. I just emailed patty mah.

And yes it is possible to get your CA through the FM stream. The streams are just co-op streams. You can specialize in Public Accounting (CA), Management Accounting (CMA) or Finance (CFA) from either PA or FM.

If you have any other questions, feel free to ask.


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A photo of Trickster Trickster
Sorry I messed that up my reply is in the middle of your quote and for some reason i cant edit it properly because im on my phone.
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A photo of Smothy88 Smothy88
Kind of off topic but I'm in first year business and want a job that will allow me to travel and/or get great travel perks. I'm currently thinking of getting my CA designation and going from there.
What kind of jobs should I be looking at? What fields?
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A photo of Smothy88 Smothy88
Kind of off topic but I'm in first year business and want a job that will allow me to travel and/or get great travel perks. I'm currently thinking of getting my CA designation and going from there.
What kind of jobs should I be looking at? What fields?
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A photo of cocoappleli cocoappleli
hi,
i'm wondering if you applied for schulich and/or rotman commerce. i want to know if the essays that you have to write for schulich and rotman are important, or are the marks and extra curriculars more important. also,if i don't really have any leadership experience, does that interfere with getting in?

i know i asked a lot of questions, but just making sure... do they look at your midterms and final marks, or do they look at your top six?
also, the additional required information can be sent anytime after you apply and before the deadline, right?
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A photo of g93 g93

@Trickster wrote

But what if my Grade 11 Functions mark is a 67...

I'm confident that I can raise my math marks up to a 90 next semester because ive been doing the textbook my school uses over the summer. How will my invite be affected?? I have 2 Grade 12 marks I did last semester, one a 91 and the other a 93. My marks so far this semester have been above 95 (i also have english this semester) and im pretty sure i can pull off a 93 or so average with only my grade 12 marks this semester and last semester. Would they really count my Grade 11 functions mark twice? Oh my god man i'm dying right now. I just emailed patty mah.




If you can have a 90 average between your 3 or 4 Grade 12 1st semester courses and one or two other Grade 11 courses, your 67 won't affect you too much as to jeopardize your invite.

I have no clue if they count it twice. It's just as possible that they will not include calc in the calculation at all. If they did want to make sure that students were proficient at math, counting Functions twice would be a plausible solution to that problem.

If your 67 in Functions drops your average below the required average (83 or 84 last year I think), then you will not get an invite. No invite = no AFM. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.
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A photo of g93 g93

@Smothy88 wrote
Kind of off topic but I'm in first year business and want a job that will allow me to travel and/or get great travel perks. I'm currently thinking of getting my CA designation and going from there.
What kind of jobs should I be looking at? What fields?


What kind of traveling are you wanting to do? Domestic, international, both?

There isn't a field that I am aware of that leads you to jobs where you travel around all of the time and get compensated well. It's not as if there is anything like a pilot or a flight attendant.

There are many jobs where travel opportunities can present themselves, but they do not appear for everyone in the field and also can depend on personal preference. Some CEOs travel the country/globe, while others never leave their office.

Also be aware- traveling for work is not the same as traveling for pleasure. My dad has been offered to go and work in places such as Germany, England/Scotland, and China for period of 3 months to 2 years, and recently could have taken a job where he would travel between these locations as well as other locations. There are others he has worked with who have gone to these places and loved it (usually single people). Others have absolutely hated it. They think that they can go and sight-see while they are there, but they go there and they work, with little time for anything else. Also remember to take into account the costs of living in these places. While the wages for someone willing to travel are often higher, the cost of living in many places also ends up being greater for these people and it kind of balances out. For all the hassles that usually accompany the experience, I know many people say they will only go if they are getting paid massive amounts (which can happen).

As a CA, there are some travel opportunities. Bermuda is always taking Canadian CAs to work there. I'm not sure about the cost of living there, but the wages are higher than you would normally get in Canada, Bermuda is a tax haven, and you're in Bermuda if you ever get time off. As an auditor or consultant domestically, you often need to travel to the client's place of business. It's not quite the prototypical "guy in the suit flying off on the jet to exotic locations and making lots of money" if that's what you're after, but it is traveling.

A sales representative is probably the only job that commonly involves traveling I can give you.

There will likely always be opportunities to travel- just keep your eyes and ears open for these positions and you shouldn't have too many problems finding them.
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A photo of g93 g93

@cocoappleli wrote
hi,
i'm wondering if you applied for schulich and/or rotman commerce. i want to know if the essays that you have to write for schulich and rotman are important, or are the marks and extra curriculars more important. also,if i don't really have any leadership experience, does that interfere with getting in?

i know i asked a lot of questions, but just making sure... do they look at your midterms and final marks, or do they look at your top six?
also, the additional required information can be sent anytime after you apply and before the deadline, right?


I did not apply to Schulich or Rotman.

Schulich claims to weight their applications 50/50, but every single person on this forum with an average above 91 or 92 seemed to get in regardless of what their ECs were like, and there were some people with 88-90 averages with great ECs that I saw turned away. Some people insist that your references are important and that your ECs do play a role, but I'm just not seeing that evidence (and neither are others).

I'm not sure about Rotman, but it seemed like people with averages above 90 got in. Perhaps applicants with marks in the mid-80s their supp was valued more.

As you can see from the above, as long as your marks are above 91/92 you shouldn't have any problems getting into Schulich/Rotman, even without leadership experience (although you should get working on that).

For more information, just ask on the "Ask a Schulich student" thread and a Rotman thread of some sort, you may get a better response.

The greatest volume of acceptances comes out after 2nd semester midterms. The universities will use your Grade 12 1st Semester Final marks and your Grade 12 2nd Semester Midterm marks. The top 6 average (usually including prerequisites) will be determined automatically (taking whatever will give you the best average). So that means the best six of your first semester final marks and second semester midterm marks will be used (usually with prerequisites).

The supplementary applications can be sent in anytime after you apply, and right up until 11:59 pm on the date it is due. Sometimes the applications aren't available until a certain date, so you may have to wait a few weeks or months until it becomes available (and they give you more than enough time).
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A photo of Trickster Trickster

@g93 wrote

@Trickster wrote

But what if my Grade 11 Functions mark is a 67...

I'm confident that I can raise my math marks up to a 90 next semester because ive been doing the textbook my school uses over the summer. How will my invite be affected?? I have 2 Grade 12 marks I did last semester, one a 91 and the other a 93. My marks so far this semester have been above 95 (i also have english this semester) and im pretty sure i can pull off a 93 or so average with only my grade 12 marks this semester and last semester. Would they really count my Grade 11 functions mark twice? Oh my god man i'm dying right now. I just emailed patty mah.




If you can have a 90 average between your 3 or 4 Grade 12 1st semester courses and one or two other Grade 11 courses, your 67 won't affect you too much as to jeopardize your invite.

I have no clue if they count it twice. It's just as possible that they will not include calc in the calculation at all. If they did want to make sure that students were proficient at math, counting Functions twice would be a plausible solution to that problem.

If your 67 in Functions drops your average below the required average (83 or 84 last year I think), then you will not get an invite. No invite = no AFM. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.



Ah okay thanks, this helped a lot. My grade 11 marks are actually not bad overall, i got a 90 in Grade 11 accounting and 87 in grade 11 english. It's just math that screwed me up because i took it in second semester with grade 12 courses and wasnt focusing on it. If you hand in the aif before afmaa invitation and its really good does that help boost your chances for invitation?
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A photo of Jack555 Jack555
G93 I have very important bus1n3ss question

how is life at waterloo! and how are you liking ur program

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A photo of CityBoy CityBoy
You AFM students have a lot of time on your hands...
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A photo of g93 g93

@Trickster wrote

Ah okay thanks, this helped a lot. My grade 11 marks are actually not bad overall, i got a 90 in Grade 11 accounting and 87 in grade 11 english. It's just math that screwed me up because i took it in second semester with grade 12 courses and wasnt focusing on it. If you hand in the aif before afmaa invitation and its really good does that help boost your chances for invitation?



Sorry for the extremely delayed response. No, handing in the AIF before the AFMAA will have no effect on your chances of getting an invitation.


@jack555 wrote
G93 I have very important bus1n3ss question

how is life at waterloo! and how are you liking ur program



It's good. The program has went through some massive changes and I'm really liking the structure.

How about you?


@CityBoy wrote
You AFM students have a lot of time on your hands...



Yes, and QC students have soooooo much class time as well.
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A photo of Ren416 Ren416
Hey g93 can you clear your inbox? lol because I tried to reply to your message so many times but it said that your inbox was full.

Thanks!
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A photo of CMA2014 CMA2014

@g93 wrote

Yes, and QC students have soooooo much class time as well.



For every hour of class, we have to dedicate at least 2 hours to group meetings and group projects. There is no commie who will average more than 7hr/sleep per day given that his grade is average or above, and is involved in at least 1 extracurricular (conference, committee, comsoc, sports).

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A photo of g93 g93

@CMA2014 wrote

@g93 wrote

Yes, and QC students have soooooo much class time as well.



For every hour of class, we have to dedicate at least 2 hours to group meetings and group projects. There is no commie who will average more than 7hr/sleep per day given that his grade is average or above, and is involved in at least 1 extracurricular (conference, committee, comsoc, sports).




They tell us the same thing. Being in this program is like a full-time job, blah blah blah. Time management goes a long way. Knowing what to skip and what to put the extra effort into is critical.

I'm not trying to criticize your program btw, QC is definitely a stellar program.
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