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HELP! UTSG or ICL(Imperial College London)

A photo of Anthonyamatthew Anthonyamatthew
Hi everyone!

I am an international student.

I want to puesue a career in Biochemical research, or pharmarcy, or go to med school.

Now I have two options:

Life Science in UTSG and Biology in ICL

For UTSG: I hopefully can do a biochemistry specialist after the first year if my GPA is high enough to get in. But the threads talking about how horrible UTSG really intimidate me, such as the C or C+ average, the work load, the competition, the size of the class, and lack of focus on undergraduate education, which really make UTSG a controvercial university. Plus, I have far less friends in Toronto than in London, UK and I am a really homesick person. Maybe more old friends can help me out when I am away from home. I have never been to London. But Toronto do give me a good impression !!!

For ICL: The biology major is my biggest concern. I am afraid that being a biology undergraduate will stop me from getting admitted in biochemistry-related or chemistry-related postgraduate programme, or even stop me from pursueing a career in these two fields. I love chemistry but I did not do well in my previous exam. That's why I have to kiss goodbye to my biochemistry offer in ICL. But I know if I choose to go to med school, biology major makes no difference to biochemistry major, right? Besides, ICL's undergraduate course, like most british undergraduate courses, is a three-year course. I'm 21 now, I don not want to graduate at 25! If i go to ICL in my undergraduate study, I can then apply to UTSG postgraduate, then find a job, then immigrate, and then apply to med school as a citizen or resident. It sounds like a good plan to me.

So, what's your opinion? Thank you for helping me out.

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A photo of deathangel deathangel
ICL.


But wait, why do you want to come to Toronto? Family? Other personal reasons? Why don't you stay in UK(are you from UK?)?
Anyway, I was told by my life sci friends that UofT does not care about their life sci undergrads. They accept a lot of sutdents, make money off them then made the tests hard just to weed people out and keep their world rankings high. UofT is famous for it's research not undergrad programs, so I guess it's better for you to do a masters in UofT... if you are still planning to come here in the future.

P.S. From what I have heard, UofT med school doesn't take a lot of their life sci undergrads because of their low GPA. They rather take students from other easier universities(like York) because they have a higher GPA.
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A photo of Anthonyamatthew Anthonyamatthew

@deathangel wrote
ICL.


But wait, why do you want to come to Toronto? Family? Other personal reasons? Why don't you stay in UK(are you from UK?)?
Anyway, I was told by my life sci friends that UofT does not care about their life sci undergrads. They accept a lot of sutdents, make money off them then made the tests hard just to weed people out and keep their world rankings high. UofT is famous for it's research not undergrad programs, so I guess it's better for you to do a masters in UofT... if you are still planning to come here in the future.

P.S. From what I have heard, UofT med school doesn't take a lot of their life sci undergrads because of their low GPA. They rather take students from other easier universities(like York) because they have a higher GPA.




Thanks so much for your advice!!!

I'm not fron UK. So will be an international student either studying in Canada or in UK. There are no major reasons for me to go to Toronto, neither family ones nor personal ones. I have never been to UK before. But I have been to Toronto. The general impression is OK.

I have read and heard about a lot of negative remarks about UTSG, more or less the same as what you have said, like the the horrible bell curve system, the average, the competition, the pressure, and the fact that many students leave UTSG life science and transfer to an easier university to get a higher GPA and then get back to UTSG med school after undergraduate. However, for UK, the education quality has been going downhill for a long time. The only thing I care about ICL is its reputation. And it's been my dream school for a very long time. I just can't let go after I work so hard for it and get it eventually! As far as I noticed, the world ranking for ICL is not much higher than that of UofT. I do not know how UTSG and all Canadian students see ICL. But it seems that Uoft enjoyS the same the reputation as ICL in North America. Sometimes, people may not know ICL but they know about University of Toronto.

The boggest draw from UTSG is the access to the major of biochemistry, that is, I can get into biochemistry major in second year and graduate with a bachelor in biochemistry if I study hard and get a high GPA. Then I can get into biochemistry postgraduate study without any problem. But in ICL, I have to study biology and graduate with a bachelor in biology, which, I afraid, can be a problem for me to get into biochemistry postgraduate study, or pharmarcy school ,or any biochemistry-related field. So the question now is that if I study biology in undergraduate and graduate with a bachelor in biology, can I study biochemistry in postgraduate study, or get involved in biochemical research in the future? If the transition is fairly easy, I may choose ICL over UTSG.

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A photo of deathangel deathangel
Since I don't know much about life sci, I think the best option is to email ICL biology faculty and ask them about it.

IMO, I think ICL is far more prestigious than UofT. I know a lot of Canadians have never heard of Imperial College, that's because many Canadians(and Americans) do not pay a lot of attention to other unis outside North America. Trust me, the quality of education won't be too bad even though it dropped slightly during the recent years.

So many people would kill to go to ICL.
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A photo of ArchEnemy ArchEnemy

@Anthonyamatthew wrote


I am an international student.

I want to puesue a career in Biochemical research, or pharmarcy, or go to med school.

Now I have two options:

Life Science in UTSG and Biology in ICL




Since you'll be an international student at both sides, I think the question should be, where do you want to practice medicine/pharmacy instead?

Canada is extremely protective of its graduates and if you don't graduate from a canadian university, it can be difficult practicing here in the future.
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A photo of Anthonyamatthew Anthonyamatthew

@ArchEnemy wrote

@Anthonyamatthew wrote


I am an international student.

I want to puesue a career in Biochemical research, or pharmarcy, or go to med school.

Now I have two options:

Life Science in UTSG and Biology in ICL




Since you'll be an international student at both sides, I think the question should be, where do you want to practice medicine/pharmacy instead?

Canada is extremely protective of its graduates and if you don't graduate from a canadian university, it can be difficult practicing here in the future.




Thank you for your advice.

If I go to UK, I still will go to Canada for postgraduate study.

In order to get into med school, here is my plan.

After graduating from ICL, I hopefully can get in UTSG postgraduate and then graduate. Then get a job and then immigrate. After obtainging the citizenship in Canada, I apply for med school. Afterall, only my undergraduate is outside Canada. But med school is still an option and to be honest I have not made up my mind to be a doctor. But I do want to get a biochemistry-related job in Canada and live there.

Another question concerns me is the transition from biology from biochemistry. I have no idea how hard it is.

And I do like Toronto. It make me less stressful. So it is really hard for me to let go of UTSG. or I should say the fantastic Canada, even it is temporary. A lot of people say ICL is way better than UTSG and I should go there. So I am really in a huge delimma and it kills me that the delimma haunts me all the time.
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A photo of ArchEnemy ArchEnemy

@Anthonyamatthew wrote

Thank you for your advice.

If I go to UK, I still will go to Canada for postgraduate study.

In order to get into med school, here is my plan.

After graduating from ICL, I hopefully can get in UTSG postgraduate and then graduate. Then get a job and then immigrate. After obtainging the citizenship in Canada, I apply for med school. Afterall, only my undergraduate is outside Canada. But med school is still an option and to be honest I have not made up my mind to be a doctor. But I do want to get a biochemistry-related job in Canada and live there.

Another question concerns me is the transition from biology from biochemistry. I have no idea how hard it is.

And I do like Toronto. It make me less stressful. So it is really hard for me to let go of UTSG. or I should say the fantastic Canada, even it is temporary. A lot of people say ICL is way better than UTSG and I should go there. So I am really in a huge delimma and it kills me that the delimma haunts me all the time.



Yes ICL is better than UTSG in world rankings. But Canadian universities does not care about world rankings at all.

You can graduate from Cambridge/Oxford in Medicine or Law, but so what you still cannot practice in Canada unless you go through some sort of training/conversion program IN Canada too.

If your ultimate goal is to stay in Canada, it's definitely more convenient in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY to get a local degree.

I have a suggestion. Why not do your undergraduate here in Canada and apply for PR/Citizenship status at the same time? Tuition fees and accommodation costs are cheaper in Toronto than London, that's for sure. A friend of mine is doing this and he is expecting to get his PR after finishing 4 years undergrad at UTSG. He is hoping to apply to med school once he gets his PR.
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A photo of Anthonyamatthew Anthonyamatthew

@ArchEnemy wrote

@Anthonyamatthew wrote

Thank you for your advice.

If I go to UK, I still will go to Canada for postgraduate study.

In order to get into med school, here is my plan.

After graduating from ICL, I hopefully can get in UTSG postgraduate and then graduate. Then get a job and then immigrate. After obtainging the citizenship in Canada, I apply for med school. Afterall, only my undergraduate is outside Canada. But med school is still an option and to be honest I have not made up my mind to be a doctor. But I do want to get a biochemistry-related job in Canada and live there.

Another question concerns me is the transition from biology from biochemistry. I have no idea how hard it is.

And I do like Toronto. It make me less stressful. So it is really hard for me to let go of UTSG. or I should say the fantastic Canada, even it is temporary. A lot of people say ICL is way better than UTSG and I should go there. So I am really in a huge delimma and it kills me that the delimma haunts me all the time.



Yes ICL is better than UTSG in world rankings. But Canadian universities does not care about world rankings at all.

You can graduate from Cambridge/Oxford in Medicine or Law, but so what you still cannot practice in Canada unless you go through some sort of training/conversion program IN Canada too.

If your ultimate goal is to stay in Canada, it's definitely more convenient in EVERY POSSIBLE WAY to get a local degree.

I have a suggestion. Why not do your undergraduate here in Canada and apply for PR/Citizenship status at the same time? Tuition fees and accommodation costs are cheaper in Toronto than London, that's for sure. A friend of mine is doing this and he is expecting to get his PR after finishing 4 years undergrad at UTSG. He is hoping to apply to med school once he gets his PR.





Thanks you so much for your advice!!! That's exactly what I ahve planned if I go to UTSG!

Even if I go to ICL, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study in for a biology or biochemical research degree as soon as I finish my undergraduate biology degree in ICL. I believe the postgraduate study in UTSG is enough for the transition, am I right? Then I can find a job and then get my PR and then I apply for med school. No matter where I go for undergraduate, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study and/or med school and get a job and my PR in Canada. I/m kinda fixated in Canada lol.

I noticed that you are now studying in trinity in UTSG. How's the campus life in UTSG? My college is St. Mike's. I always assume the university life in North America is far more sxciting in UK. But this is purely based on stereotype. However, I also heard that UTSG students have no social life at all. To be frank, I do not want to spend all my undergraduate life in studying.

For the cost, I believe studying in UTSG and ICL cost roughly the same as UTSG undergraduate is 4-year while ICL undergraduate is three-year.
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A photo of ArchEnemy ArchEnemy

@Anthonyamatthew wrote
Thanks you so much for your advice!!! That's exactly what I ahve planned if I go to UTSG!

Even if I go to ICL, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study in for a biology or biochemical research degree as soon as I finish my undergraduate biology degree in ICL. I believe the postgraduate study in UTSG is enough for the transition, am I right? Then I can find a job and then get my PR and then I apply for med school. No matter where I go for undergraduate, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study and/or med school and get a job and my PR in Canada. I/m kinda fixated in Canada lol.

I noticed that you are now studying in trinity in UTSG. How's the campus life in UTSG? My college is St. Mike's. I always assume the university life in North America is far more sxciting in UK. But this is purely based on stereotype. However, I also heard that UTSG students have no social life at all. To be frank, I do not want to spend all my undergraduate life in studying.

For the cost, I believe studying in UTSG and ICL cost roughly the same as UTSG undergraduate is 4-year while ICL undergraduate is three-year.



You're welcome. I'm glad to be of help.

I'm not too sure what do you find exciting. Drinking and partying? Travelling? Having the Hogwarts Experience (Trinity)?

Yup I'm currently at UTSG campus. However I'm unable to comment well on the campus life since I'm a commuter. But I've seen that students at St. Mike's are extremely fun and love partying! YOU WILL NOT BE BORED THERE. I also have a friend at ICL pursuing EEE (He's from Indonesia, not intending to come to Canada), and he has had the opportunity to travel around 1/2 of Europe during his school year, since his grades are based on only 1 assessment at the end of the year. I doubt you'll be able to travel more than 3 cities during the school year because you'll be having a test/quiz every 3 weeks or so at UTSG. Having a social life or not really depends on how smart and how motivated you are to maintain perfect GPA. There are people who can study for 1-2hrs and take in the same amount of content that others take 5rs to. I doubt you will have NIL social life at UTSG, but relative to friends from other universities, you will have less of a social life. Hope that's not confusing you instead.

The research facilities for life sciences (except Neuroscience) here are far superior than any other universities, even Mcgill included. This was verified by a professor and a TA who did their undergrad in life sciences at Mcgill but came here for post-graduate studies because of the research equipment available. So if you are interested in research, you should definitely come to UTSG more than other universities.

If you are intending to pursue a professional degree here in Canada either in Pharmacy or Medicine in the future, again, I would highly recommend that you come to Canada to pursue your undergrad instead. A Canadian 4-year degree is definitely more recognized at these professional schools than a 3-year degree from a different continent, despite it being ICL. I would even go as far to say that many Canadian schools recognize a US degree more than a UK degree, since the UK system is very different.

Most professional schools will only look at your undergrad degree even if you have a post-graduate degree. The post-graduate degree may give you a slight bump when applying to certain schools such as Queens or UofT for medicine, but it cannot take the place of the undergrad degree. Your undergrad is still the golden key into professional schools.

Not sure if the above made sense, just woke up a while ago and still groggy. lol. But I hope this will at least help a little in making your decision.
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A photo of Anthonyamatthew Anthonyamatthew

@ArchEnemy wrote

@Anthonyamatthew wrote
Thanks you so much for your advice!!! That's exactly what I ahve planned if I go to UTSG!

Even if I go to ICL, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study in for a biology or biochemical research degree as soon as I finish my undergraduate biology degree in ICL. I believe the postgraduate study in UTSG is enough for the transition, am I right? Then I can find a job and then get my PR and then I apply for med school. No matter where I go for undergraduate, I will go to Canada(hopefully UTSG) for postgraduate study and/or med school and get a job and my PR in Canada. I/m kinda fixated in Canada lol.

I noticed that you are now studying in trinity in UTSG. How's the campus life in UTSG? My college is St. Mike's. I always assume the university life in North America is far more sxciting in UK. But this is purely based on stereotype. However, I also heard that UTSG students have no social life at all. To be frank, I do not want to spend all my undergraduate life in studying.

For the cost, I believe studying in UTSG and ICL cost roughly the same as UTSG undergraduate is 4-year while ICL undergraduate is three-year.



You're welcome. I'm glad to be of help.

I'm not too sure what do you find exciting. Drinking and partying? Travelling? Having the Hogwarts Experience (Trinity)?

Yup I'm currently at UTSG campus. However I'm unable to comment well on the campus life since I'm a commuter. But I've seen that students at St. Mike's are extremely fun and love partying! YOU WILL NOT BE BORED THERE. I also have a friend at ICL pursuing EEE (He's from Indonesia, not intending to come to Canada), and he has had the opportunity to travel around 1/2 of Europe during his school year, since his grades are based on only 1 assessment at the end of the year. I doubt you'll be able to travel more than 3 cities during the school year because you'll be having a test/quiz every 3 weeks or so at UTSG. Having a social life or not really depends on how smart and how motivated you are to maintain perfect GPA. There are people who can study for 1-2hrs and take in the same amount of content that others take 5rs to. I doubt you will have NIL social life at UTSG, but relative to friends from other universities, you will have less of a social life. Hope that's not confusing you instead.

The research facilities for life sciences (except Neuroscience) here are far superior than any other universities, even Mcgill included. This was verified by a professor and a TA who did their undergrad in life sciences at Mcgill but came here for post-graduate studies because of the research equipment available. So if you are interested in research, you should definitely come to UTSG more than other universities.

If you are intending to pursue a professional degree here in Canada either in Pharmacy or Medicine in the future, again, I would highly recommend that you come to Canada to pursue your undergrad instead. A Canadian 4-year degree is definitely more recognized at these professional schools than a 3-year degree from a different continent, despite it being ICL. I would even go as far to say that many Canadian schools recognize a US degree more than a UK degree, since the UK system is very different.

Most professional schools will only look at your undergrad degree even if you have a post-graduate degree. The post-graduate degree may give you a slight bump when applying to certain schools such as Queens or UofT for medicine, but it cannot take the place of the undergrad degree. Your undergrad is still the golden key into professional schools.

Not sure if the above made sense, just woke up a while ago and still groggy. lol. But I hope this will at least help a little in making your decision.



Hi!!!
I am now in UTSG now. Thank you so much for your help!!! I am in SMC and now i am so struggling with my courses. I used to think it is not that hard to get a good grade in UTSG until I began to prepare for my term tests. I almost slept 4-5 hours and drank a lot of energy drinks before the tests but i still got hirrible marks below average. I am in Life Science. Was your first year that horrible to you?
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A photo of kraken kraken
first year is horrible for a lot of people. it gets better, once you learn how to study properly etc.
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A photo of ArchEnemy ArchEnemy

@Anthonyamatthew wrote

Hi!!!
I am now in UTSG now. Thank you so much for your help!!! I am in SMC and now i am so struggling with my courses. I used to think it is not that hard to get a good grade in UTSG until I began to prepare for my term tests. I almost slept 4-5 hours and drank a lot of energy drinks before the tests but i still got hirrible marks below average. I am in Life Science. Was your first year that horrible to you?



It seems to me like you are cramming rather than studying. These are two very different approaches. My first advice to you is to start revising as early as possible, preferably within a day or two after lecture. Do not do last minute cramming unless it's an easy/pure memorizing course like BIO130. Definitely not for chemistry.

I think you should also revisit your studying methods. Are you studying efficiently? Having Facebook in front of you while studying is definitely inefficient, and you lose a lot of time and concentration subconsciously.

After a lecture, if you do not understand any material that was presented in class, do you go see the professor immediately? Or do you go back and try to "sort it out"? I would recommend that you do the former, unless of course the waiting line is really long. This is the purpose of attending lectures and having the professor explain concepts to you rather than having to search up google for information on your own. Don't be afraid to be labelled as "one of those gunners". Gunners are the ones receiving the good grades after all ;)

Good luck and study hard!
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