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International student - Ivey HBA program?

A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94
Hi all,

I'm an international student from the UK applying for the UWO Ivey HBA program - I understand it's a 2+2 year program and therefore I'd be looking to take Economics.

Please can current students inform me:

a) of the reputation of this business program (I understand it's thought to be one of the best commerce programs in Canada?)
b) what the Economics program is like at Ivey (I basically have no clue)
c) what are the career prospects? (I'm hoping to go into consulting at a top firm)

Any other insights/tips would be appreciated. Like I said, I basically only have a basic knowledge of the program and would like to learn a lot more.

My grades are very good for UK standard - I also have a strong extracurricular profile and will be applying for entry next year (to start in 2013).

Thanks in advance,

Ash
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A photo of Augustus1 Augustus1
Hi, glad to see you're interested in Canada!

a) Ivey definitely has the best reputation within Canada (followed by Queen's Commerce). Abroad, Western isn't as well known as Queen's, so your average person in the UK or elsewhere won't have heard of Western, let alone Ivey. But within the business field/top firms and for MBA programs at top schools all around the world it is very well known and respected. I know someone who started their masters at Oxford this year after doing their HBA at Ivey (and getting hired by Goldman Sachs NY office in between).

b) I'm still in high school so I can't comment on the specific program. However you can do whatever you want for the first two years and there are people doing everything from music to biology before they start the HBA. I've heard that the econ program is harder than BMOS - I'm applying to BMOS (and political science in case I change my mind later) just to make it easier to maintain the progression requirements. So I'd say pick any program you want because it won't make a difference for Ivey (unless of course you want to double major Western Econ/Ivey HBA in which case you'd apply to econ).

c) What I do know is that Ivey has the best banking career placements. I'm guessing they'd do quite well at consulting. My brother is in a big four accounting firm and says there are tons of Ivey people there. So if it does well in banking and accounting I'd guess they do well at consulting too. Check out their permanent employment report and summer employment report from last year - I see McKinsey listed in both, if that gives an idea.
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A photo of cherrypie725 cherrypie725

@Augustus1 wrote

a) Ivey definitely has the best reputation within Canada (followed by Queen's Commerce).



Arguable
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@Augustus1 wrote
Hi, glad to see you're interested in Canada!

a) Ivey definitely has the best reputation within Canada (followed by Queen's Commerce). Abroad, Western isn't as well known as Queen's, so your average person in the UK or elsewhere won't have heard of Western, let alone Ivey. But within the business field/top firms and for MBA programs at top schools all around the world it is very well known and respected. I know someone who started their masters at Oxford this year after doing their HBA at Ivey (and getting hired by Goldman Sachs NY office in between).

b) I'm still in high school so I can't comment on the specific program. However you can do whatever you want for the first two years and there are people doing everything from music to biology before they start the HBA. I've heard that the econ program is harder than BMOS - I'm applying to BMOS (and political science in case I change my mind later) just to make it easier to maintain the progression requirements. So I'd say pick any program you want because it won't make a difference for Ivey (unless of course you want to double major Western Econ/Ivey HBA in which case you'd apply to econ).

c) What I do know is that Ivey has the best banking career placements. I'm guessing they'd do quite well at consulting. My brother is in a big four accounting firm and says there are tons of Ivey people there. So if it does well in banking and accounting I'd guess they do well at consulting too. Check out their permanent employment report and summer employment report from last year - I see McKinsey listed in both, if that gives an idea.



Wow, this is a great reply! Thanks a lot - Ivey is kind of the only program I'm interested in as I definitely want to study Economics, but also am really interested in Business. What's BMOS btw? I heard it's not respected but that's what I've just picked up, I know it's to do with business and organisational studies though?

What's London, Ontario like anyway? Weather-wise? I'm a pretty sociable guy so how's the nightlife/parties down there? I think I might fly out next year to have a look before applying so would be good to get some perspective.

Cheers for the links - in the UK, McKinsey and the other top consultancies are reserved for those that go to Oxford or Cambridge and they are really really hard to get into as an undergrad. Any more general info/tips about the Ivey HBA program would be appreciated :) Thanks

Edit: and you're spot on, nobody knows about UWO over here in the UK. I heard it has a good rep if you're going for MBA so sounds interesting!!
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A photo of jelly jelly
BMOS is generally taken by AEO students who think it'll help them prepare better for Ivey HBA, but from what I've heard it's not really as advantageous as it sounds. Its not a top-tier program, but it doesn't really matter, since no one actually finishes their BMOS degree. If you're interested in Economics you can do one more year to graduate with a double degree I believe.

London is real cold. Last year they had snow piling up their doors in the winter. Western is widely recognized as the best party school in the country.

Ivey has one of, if not the best career opportunities out of an undergrad business program. Great placements around the globe, and if you're the top of your class, you have a good chance of being hired at a top firm like you wanted.
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@jelly wrote
BMOS is generally taken by AEO students who think it'll help them prepare better for Ivey HBA, but from what I've heard it's not really as advantageous as it sounds. Its not a top-tier program, but it doesn't really matter, since no one actually finishes their BMOS degree. If you're interested in Economics you can do one more year to graduate with a double degree I believe.

London is real cold. Last year they had snow piling up their doors in the winter. Western is widely recognized as the best party school in the country.

Ivey has one of, if not the best career opportunities out of an undergrad business program. Great placements around the globe, and if you're the top of your class, you have a good chance of being hired at a top firm like you wanted.



Wow, thanks! This makes it sound really attractive - is there a good nightlife in Ontario? and what is the main method of transport around London?

I will be working my arse off if I get in - just a bit unsure on the entry requirements. I understand you apply through OUAC? Not sure if I have to write an essay? In the UK, we have to write a 'personal statement' and provide references. Similar process over here?

Thanks again :)
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A photo of onlymatthew onlymatthew
I'm currently in BMOS.

There's essentially no reason to go to the trouble of studying internationally at Western except for Ivey. It does indeed have a good reputation in Canada, but it's foolish to believe that it's the ultimate business program. It is well known within Canada, but international universities such as U of T and McGill simply have more branding in some parts of the world. Consider what you want to do with the degree.

Anyways, most people take either BMOS or Economics prior to Ivey. Economics usually attracts smarter people and allows for the opportunity for a double degree. Double degrees are a bit over rated in my opinion, but it's a decision you'd have to make. Economics is viewed as more difficult because in your second year you have to take more rigorous maths and you go much more in depth into economics. I wouldn't suggest economics unless you had a keen interest in it. It might not be as beneficial to you if you want to enter consulting.

Allow me to talk about BMOS. It's perceivably the "easier" route to economics, but its teaching methods are questionable. The courses are very different from how Ivey will be teaching, which is why many people disregard the problem completely. So far, the information I've learned is fairly useless AND difficult to score marks in. You would think that a bad course would only be one of the two, but BMOS is that exceptional. The exams are all multiple choice and rely on an ability to remember seemingly unrelated facts.

Consider that your main objective in the first two years is to hit the 80 % average. Decide which path is easier to achieve that goal.

There's a good night life in London. It's primarily a university town so there's a high population of students, and the "party reputation" of Western creates a mob mentality makes people feel like they always have to be partying. It's very easy to not party at Western though (all you have to do is nothing). The main method is the city bus, which unfortunately only runs until midnight. I don't know what the legal drinking age is in the UK, but it's 19 in London. This may be a problem depending on your resourcefulness.

To apply to Ivey, I believe there's an external website that you have to apply to. You apply to the base program through OUAC (BMOS or Econ) and then go to Ivey's HBA inside track website.
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A photo of iliketurtles iliketurtles
If you want to work internationally, why don't you consider McGill and Queen's too? Ivey has (one of the) best reputations, but honestly doing well at McGill or Queen's will put you in as good of a position internationally, or so I would think considering McGill's reputation abroad. I'm not saying go to McGill or Queen's over Ivey, I'm just saying you should also consider those based on your interests.
p.s. on a side note, is money not an issue for you? You should also look at international tuition rates because they tend to get a little crazy, you'll be dishing well over $100,000 easy if you go to Ivey/Queen's/McGill
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@iliketurtles wrote
If you want to work internationally, why don't you consider McGill and Queen's too? Ivey has (one of the) best reputations, but honestly doing well at McGill or Queen's will put you in as good of a position internationally, or so I would think considering McGill's reputation abroad. I'm not saying go to McGill or Queen's over Ivey, I'm just saying you should also consider those based on your interests.
p.s. on a side note, is money not an issue for you? You should also look at international tuition rates because they tend to get a little crazy, you'll be dishing well over $100,000 easy if you go to Ivey/Queen's/McGill



Hi, thanks but I'm interested in Ivey/UWO because of the 2+2 year program which I don't think other universities offer.

I understand tuition for the 4 years is roughly around $90000 for international students - I'd be looking to get financial aid though through Ivey to cover a majority of my living costs. Do you think that's reasonable?

and I'm looking to stay in Canada afterwards anyway (that is until a possible MBA...) - any information on this would be appreciated, I'm in the 'learning' process at the minute.
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A photo of iliketurtles iliketurtles
Fair enough :P
I don't know how aid works out for international students, maybe someone else could help you out on that
Ivey/Queen's will probably give you the best opportunities to work in Canada, so you've got nothing to worry about so long as you can get in and graduate :)
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A photo of g93 g93
@onlymatthew

You failed to mention that while Ivey may not be as well-known worldwide, having the opportunity to get top jobs will give you experience at brand-name companies.

Would you rather apply to an international job with UofT/Rotman and CIBC or Protiviti on your application, or Western/Ivey and Goldman Sachs or McKinsey?
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A photo of ndrwzheng ndrwzheng

@econmajor94 wrote
Hi all,

I'm an international student from the UK applying for the UWO Ivey HBA program - I understand it's a 2+2 year program and therefore I'd be looking to take Economics.

Please can current students inform me:

a) of the reputation of this business program (I understand it's thought to be one of the best commerce programs in Canada?)
b) what the Economics program is like at Ivey (I basically have no clue)
c) what are the career prospects? (I'm hoping to go into consulting at a top firm)

Any other insights/tips would be appreciated. Like I said, I basically only have a basic knowledge of the program and would like to learn a lot more.

My grades are very good for UK standard - I also have a strong extracurricular profile and will be applying for entry next year (to start in 2013).

Thanks in advance,

Ash



Hi Ash, welcome! I'm also applying to Ivey and am going to do Economics, so I'm on the same trail as you. In regards to your questions, Ivey does indeed have the best reputation in Canada for a business school, but globally, they'll be thinking "Who the hell is Ivey?". Queen's and U of T offer better reputations globally, unless you're going into investment banking. In the US, every i-Bank knows Ivey's HBA program. I know I want to work in investment in the future, which is why I chose Ivey as my first choice. My current math teacher who was a partner at Accenture (you've probably heard of them before, they're one of the largest consulting firms), said that they ONLY recruited people who graduated from either Ivey or Queen's. Nowhere else! Based on his experience, I would say that consulting firms (in Canada at least) would very likely give you a job if you graduated from Ivey. Queen's is excellent too, and don't think of it as more inferior. It all depends on where you want to work. If you wanna go back to the UK, Queen's is more suitable, but If you're staying in Canada/US, I would go with Ivey.

P.S. Since we're applying to the same program, let's stay in touch. You never know, maybe we'll meet each other in university! :P
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@onlymatthew wrote
I'm currently in BMOS.

There's essentially no reason to go to the trouble of studying internationally at Western except for Ivey. It does indeed have a good reputation in Canada, but it's foolish to believe that it's the ultimate business program. It is well known within Canada, but international universities such as U of T and McGill simply have more branding in some parts of the world. Consider what you want to do with the degree.

Anyways, most people take either BMOS or Economics prior to Ivey. Economics usually attracts smarter people and allows for the opportunity for a double degree. Double degrees are a bit over rated in my opinion, but it's a decision you'd have to make. Economics is viewed as more difficult because in your second year you have to take more rigorous maths and you go much more in depth into economics. I wouldn't suggest economics unless you had a keen interest in it. It might not be as beneficial to you if you want to enter consulting.

Allow me to talk about BMOS. It's perceivably the "easier" route to economics, but its teaching methods are questionable. The courses are very different from how Ivey will be teaching, which is why many people disregard the problem completely. So far, the information I've learned is fairly useless AND difficult to score marks in. You would think that a bad course would only be one of the two, but BMOS is that exceptional. The exams are all multiple choice and rely on an ability to remember seemingly unrelated facts.

Consider that your main objective in the first two years is to hit the 80 % average. Decide which path is easier to achieve that goal.

There's a good night life in London. It's primarily a university town so there's a high population of students, and the "party reputation" of Western creates a mob mentality makes people feel like they always have to be partying. It's very easy to not party at Western though (all you have to do is nothing). The main method is the city bus, which unfortunately only runs until midnight. I don't know what the legal drinking age is in the UK, but it's 19 in London. This may be a problem depending on your resourcefulness.

To apply to Ivey, I believe there's an external website that you have to apply to. You apply to the base program through OUAC (BMOS or Econ) and then go to Ivey's HBA inside track website.



Hi 'onlymatthew' - thanks for all that information, really cleared up a few grey spot areas. Having done a bit more research, I think Economics looks okay but I want to try and avoid as much maths as possible!

If I do Economics with AEO entry, will I be doing a 'major in economics' [url]http://www.westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2011/pg806.html[/url] - as an international student, I don't have any idea if the first 2 years is meant to be a major in economics or a specialisation? - also, do you know if Calc 1000A/B is hard?

Thanks in advance.
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@ndrwzheng wrote

@econmajor94 wrote
Hi all,

I'm an international student from the UK applying for the UWO Ivey HBA program - I understand it's a 2+2 year program and therefore I'd be looking to take Economics.

Please can current students inform me:

a) of the reputation of this business program (I understand it's thought to be one of the best commerce programs in Canada?)
b) what the Economics program is like at Ivey (I basically have no clue)
c) what are the career prospects? (I'm hoping to go into consulting at a top firm)

Any other insights/tips would be appreciated. Like I said, I basically only have a basic knowledge of the program and would like to learn a lot more.

My grades are very good for UK standard - I also have a strong extracurricular profile and will be applying for entry next year (to start in 2013).

Thanks in advance,

Ash



Hi Ash, welcome! I'm also applying to Ivey and am going to do Economics, so I'm on the same trail as you. In regards to your questions, Ivey does indeed have the best reputation in Canada for a business school, but globally, they'll be thinking "Who the hell is Ivey?". Queen's and U of T offer better reputations globally, unless you're going into investment banking. In the US, every i-Bank knows Ivey's HBA program. I know I want to work in investment in the future, which is why I chose Ivey as my first choice. My current math teacher who was a partner at Accenture (you've probably heard of them before, they're one of the largest consulting firms), said that they ONLY recruited people who graduated from either Ivey or Queen's. Nowhere else! Based on his experience, I would say that consulting firms (in Canada at least) would very likely give you a job if you graduated from Ivey. Queen's is excellent too, and don't think of it as more inferior. It all depends on where you want to work. If you wanna go back to the UK, Queen's is more suitable, but If you're staying in Canada/US, I would go with Ivey.

P.S. Since we're applying to the same program, let's stay in touch. You never know, maybe we'll meet each other in university! :P



Hi there, nice to meet you - if you have facebook, join this group: http://www.facebook.com/groups/170048649755241/ (although it is for the class of 2016 and I will be applying for entry in Sept 2013 so technically class of '17) - do you know anything about the economics workload?

i.e. which courses do we have to take in year 1? and how many? I've seen 1020, 1021 and 1022 but am confused by the whole system! Does that total 5.0 courses or do we have to take other courses from other departments? confused...!
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A photo of onlymatthew onlymatthew

@econmajor94 wrote

Hi 'onlymatthew' - thanks for all that information, really cleared up a few grey spot areas. Having done a bit more research, I think Economics looks okay but I want to try and avoid as much maths as possible!

If I do Economics with AEO entry, will I be doing a 'major in economics' [url]http://www.westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2011/pg806.html[/url] - as an international student, I don't have any idea if the first 2 years is meant to be a major in economics or a specialisation? - also, do you know if Calc 1000A/B is hard?

Thanks in advance.



Calc 1000 is decent. I'm not familiar at all with the UK secondary school curriculum, but a lot of it is almost identical to high school calculus. It's by no means a difficult math, but there are easier ones (1225, 1229, 1228) and there are much harder ones (1301, 1501, 1600). It's supposed to be the precursor to 1301 (hard), but most people are soft and opt to not to do it. In Calc 1000 you stop after pretty basic integral work. You'll find that almost everyone takes 1000, because I believe it's a prerequisite for upper year courses. It's definitely possible to get a 90+ if you put the effort into it.

I also believe you have to take 1600 (linear algebra) first year, which can be a challenge. I haven't taken it, but I believe the general consensus is that 1600 is difficult. I'm in MOS and I don't have to take 1600.

Also, all of that "financial economics" and "economics" stuff isn't completely relevant to your interest right now. Those options all start second year. First year you'll simply be in economics and then after that you can decide which branch you want to take or where you want to specialize. Again, it shouldn't be your greatest concern if you're going for Ivey anyways.
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A photo of econmajor94 econmajor94

@onlymatthew wrote

@econmajor94 wrote

Hi 'onlymatthew' - thanks for all that information, really cleared up a few grey spot areas. Having done a bit more research, I think Economics looks okay but I want to try and avoid as much maths as possible!

If I do Economics with AEO entry, will I be doing a 'major in economics' [url]http://www.westerncalendar.uwo.ca/2011/pg806.html[/url] - as an international student, I don't have any idea if the first 2 years is meant to be a major in economics or a specialisation? - also, do you know if Calc 1000A/B is hard?

Thanks in advance.



Calc 1000 is decent. I'm not familiar at all with the UK secondary school curriculum, but a lot of it is almost identical to high school calculus. It's by no means a difficult math, but there are easier ones (1225, 1229, 1228) and there are much harder ones (1301, 1501, 1600). It's supposed to be the precursor to 1301 (hard), but most people are soft and opt to not to do it. In Calc 1000 you stop after pretty basic integral work. You'll find that almost everyone takes 1000, because I believe it's a prerequisite for upper year courses. It's definitely possible to get a 90+ if you put the effort into it.

I also believe you have to take 1600 (linear algebra) first year, which can be a challenge. I haven't taken it, but I believe the general consensus is that 1600 is difficult. I'm in MOS and I don't have to take 1600.

Also, all of that "financial economics" and "economics" stuff isn't completely relevant to your interest right now. Those options all start second year. First year you'll simply be in economics and then after that you can decide which branch you want to take or where you want to specialize. Again, it shouldn't be your greatest concern if you're going for Ivey anyways.



Hi again, thanks for the information!

So in first year, do I just take 5.0 courses from any of the 3 categories on the UWO academic calender (e.g. there are specific requirements for Economics but apart from that, I am free to take whatever I want?)

and so does that mean I will major in Economics in 2nd year? Is that how it progresses? - on the UWO website, there's loads of different options for 'specialisation in economics' or 'major in economics' and I'm a bit unsure. All I know for definite is I have to take 5.0 courses each year and fill the econ requirements (couple of econ/maths courses).

Thanks again, I've been having a look at courses now to get my head round the system!!
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A photo of ash1994 ash1994
Bump, I'm interested in a few of the Q's the OP is asking.

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A photo of IveyHBARecruiting IveyHBARecruiting

@econmajor94 wrote
Hi all,

I'm an international student from the UK applying for the UWO Ivey HBA program - I understand it's a 2+2 year program and therefore I'd be looking to take Economics.

Please can current students inform me:

a) of the reputation of this business program (I understand it's thought to be one of the best commerce programs in Canada?)
b) what the Economics program is like at Ivey (I basically have no clue)
c) what are the career prospects? (I'm hoping to go into consulting at a top firm)

Any other insights/tips would be appreciated. Like I said, I basically only have a basic knowledge of the program and would like to learn a lot more.

My grades are very good for UK standard - I also have a strong extracurricular profile and will be applying for entry next year (to start in 2013).

Thanks in advance,

Ash




Hi Ash,

My name is Kate and I am a Recruitment Associate at Ivey. I've been following this thread and you've had some great questions. I'd like to direct to Ivey's official thread: http://www.studentawards.com/Forum.aspx?g=posts&t=3666&p=31. If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask!

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