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Ivey, Schulich, Queens Comm or UW & WLU BBA & BMath?

A photo of ootphr ootphr
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.
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11 replies
 
A photo of mundane12321 mundane12321

@ootphr wrote
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.



I highly doubt that you'll enjoy the UW& WLU double degree especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what you area of business you would like to specialize in. UW math is no joke, and I am already hearing rumours that people dropped out of the program already. Unless you're getting 100% (and winning all the UW math contests and stuff) in high school math, you'll most likely to struggle in waterloo math. So only go to that program if you really, really like math... not to mention the first yr comp programming course that kills everyone.

Additionally, you may only find this combination of math&business helpful if you're thinking of going into quantitative finance, meaning a lot of math involved business. However it seems like a lot of drop outs from DD go into WLU BBA, which seems like a solid business program, provided that you get a co-op placement. WLU BBA seems to be stepping up their game and slowly getting out of their "2nd tier" reputation amongst recruiters...

I guess an easier alternative to UW/WLU double degree would be doing 2+2 at western with Bachelor of math degree and HBA. But honestly, no one majors in math at uwo... like, no one.

lol, what's your definition of "better job?" like, you don't even know what you want to do upon graduation... Obviously consulting and finance brings in the big bucks but you'll probably working like 60-80 hours a week or so...

but ivey graduates does have the highest figure earnings amongst any other business programs in canada... (according to the brochure) but QC kids would disagree... as always.


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A photo of Nick0rz Nick0rz

@mundane12321 wrote

@ootphr wrote
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.



I highly doubt that you'll enjoy the UW& WLU double degree especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what you area of business you would like to specialize in. UW math is no joke, and I am already hearing rumours that people dropped out of the program already. Unless you're getting 100% (and winning all the UW math contests and stuff) in high school math, you'll most likely to struggle in waterloo math. So only go to that program if you really, really like math... not to mention the first yr comp programming course that kills everyone.

Additionally, you may only find this combination of math&business helpful if you're thinking of going into quantitative finance, meaning a lot of math involved business. However it seems like a lot of drop outs from DD go into WLU BBA, which seems like a solid business program, provided that you get a co-op placement. WLU BBA seems to be stepping up their game and slowly getting out of their "2nd tier" reputation amongst recruiters...

I guess an easier alternative to UW/WLU double degree would be doing 2+2 at western with Bachelor of math degree and HBA. But honestly, no one majors in math at uwo... like, no one.

lol, what's your definition of "better job?" like, you don't even know what you want to do upon graduation... Obviously consulting and finance brings in the big bucks but you'll probably working like 60-80 hours a week or so...

but ivey graduates does have the highest figure earnings amongst any other business programs in canada... (according to the brochure) but QC kids would disagree... as always.





Actually, I think DD is great if you don't know what area of business you want to specialize in, since you don't pick a specialization until year 4 (or 5 depending on how you lay out your courses). Yes people will of already dropped out. The drop rate is 50% by the end of first year. You are really exaggerating the difficulty of the math. Doing well in contests is a great identifier of whether you'll do well, however it isn't the end all and be all. There's a great community amongst DD's, we work together, which makes assignments funner/easier. Last night there were about 10 of us all working on 2 CS assignments at the math building until around 4am. Its hard, but all of uni is hard. The first year programming course is dead easy if you have any CS experience, and its also very achievable for people to do VERY VERY well with no cs background at all.

It isn't just quant finance, but every area of finance. For example, Teachers Pension and BMO absolutely LOVE DD students. This is for everything from private equity, to IB to more quantitative things.

Alright now for my less biased side... If you want consulting go to Queens or Ivey. If you want to do finance and aren't sure if math is for you I'd do Ivey. If you're worried your ECs aren't enough, Schulich should still accept you. Schulich is also a great school, with top notch networking opportunities.

RE: Earnings. Highest earnings is not a great indicator at all for quality of program, and it should have very little weighting at all in your choice of school.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify my comments in the first paragraph. Math at the university level is hard, theres no denying that. However every university program is challenging. If you go to Schulich you'll be studying just as much as if you do DD. However you need to decide if you're willing to put in the effort to learning math that is at times very challenging. University math is hard, as it should be, but there's no reason to be terrified and run in the other direction if you weren't able to do integrals in grade 2. You don't have to be a genius to succeed, but it is a challenging degree.
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A photo of ootphr ootphr

@Nick0rz wrote

@mundane12321 wrote

@ootphr wrote
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.



I highly doubt that you'll enjoy the UW& WLU double degree especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what you area of business you would like to specialize in. UW math is no joke, and I am already hearing rumours that people dropped out of the program already. Unless you're getting 100% (and winning all the UW math contests and stuff) in high school math, you'll most likely to struggle in waterloo math. So only go to that program if you really, really like math... not to mention the first yr comp programming course that kills everyone.

Additionally, you may only find this combination of math&business helpful if you're thinking of going into quantitative finance, meaning a lot of math involved business. However it seems like a lot of drop outs from DD go into WLU BBA, which seems like a solid business program, provided that you get a co-op placement. WLU BBA seems to be stepping up their game and slowly getting out of their "2nd tier" reputation amongst recruiters...

I guess an easier alternative to UW/WLU double degree would be doing 2+2 at western with Bachelor of math degree and HBA. But honestly, no one majors in math at uwo... like, no one.

lol, what's your definition of "better job?" like, you don't even know what you want to do upon graduation... Obviously consulting and finance brings in the big bucks but you'll probably working like 60-80 hours a week or so...

but ivey graduates does have the highest figure earnings amongst any other business programs in canada... (according to the brochure) but QC kids would disagree... as always.





Actually, I think DD is great if you don't know what area of business you want to specialize in, since you don't pick a specialization until year 4 (or 5 depending on how you lay out your courses). Yes people will of already dropped out. The drop rate is 50% by the end of first year. You are really exaggerating the difficulty of the math. Doing well in contests is a great identifier of whether you'll do well, however it isn't the end all and be all. There's a great community amongst DD's, we work together, which makes assignments funner/easier. Last night there were about 10 of us all working on 2 CS assignments at the math building until around 4am. Its hard, but all of uni is hard. The first year programming course is dead easy if you have any CS experience, and its also very achievable for people to do VERY VERY well with no cs background at all.

It isn't just quant finance, but every area of finance. For example, Teachers Pension and BMO absolutely LOVE DD students. This is for everything from private equity, to IB to more quantitative things.

Alright now for my less biased side... If you want consulting go to Queens or Ivey. If you want to do finance and aren't sure if math is for you I'd do Ivey. If you're worried your ECs aren't enough, Schulich should still accept you. Schulich is also a great school, with top notch networking opportunities.

RE: Earnings. Highest earnings is not a great indicator at all for quality of program, and it should have very little weighting at all in your choice of school.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify my comments in the first paragraph. Math at the university level is hard, theres no denying that. However every university program is challenging. If you go to Schulich you'll be studying just as much as if you do DD. However you need to decide if you're willing to put in the effort to learning math that is at times very challenging. University math is hard, as it should be, but there's no reason to be terrified and run in the other direction if you weren't able to do integrals in grade 2. You don't have to be a genius to succeed, but it is a challenging degree.



What is the drop out rate for DD? Will I survive if I have a low 90s in both Advanced Functions and Calculus in Gr 12?
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@ootphr wrote

@Nick0rz wrote

@mundane12321 wrote

@ootphr wrote
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.



I highly doubt that you'll enjoy the UW& WLU double degree especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what you area of business you would like to specialize in. UW math is no joke, and I am already hearing rumours that people dropped out of the program already. Unless you're getting 100% (and winning all the UW math contests and stuff) in high school math, you'll most likely to struggle in waterloo math. So only go to that program if you really, really like math... not to mention the first yr comp programming course that kills everyone.

Additionally, you may only find this combination of math&business helpful if you're thinking of going into quantitative finance, meaning a lot of math involved business. However it seems like a lot of drop outs from DD go into WLU BBA, which seems like a solid business program, provided that you get a co-op placement. WLU BBA seems to be stepping up their game and slowly getting out of their "2nd tier" reputation amongst recruiters...

I guess an easier alternative to UW/WLU double degree would be doing 2+2 at western with Bachelor of math degree and HBA. But honestly, no one majors in math at uwo... like, no one.

lol, what's your definition of "better job?" like, you don't even know what you want to do upon graduation... Obviously consulting and finance brings in the big bucks but you'll probably working like 60-80 hours a week or so...

but ivey graduates does have the highest figure earnings amongst any other business programs in canada... (according to the brochure) but QC kids would disagree... as always.





Actually, I think DD is great if you don't know what area of business you want to specialize in, since you don't pick a specialization until year 4 (or 5 depending on how you lay out your courses). Yes people will of already dropped out. The drop rate is 50% by the end of first year. You are really exaggerating the difficulty of the math. Doing well in contests is a great identifier of whether you'll do well, however it isn't the end all and be all. There's a great community amongst DD's, we work together, which makes assignments funner/easier. Last night there were about 10 of us all working on 2 CS assignments at the math building until around 4am. Its hard, but all of uni is hard. The first year programming course is dead easy if you have any CS experience, and its also very achievable for people to do VERY VERY well with no cs background at all.

It isn't just quant finance, but every area of finance. For example, Teachers Pension and BMO absolutely LOVE DD students. This is for everything from private equity, to IB to more quantitative things.

Alright now for my less biased side... If you want consulting go to Queens or Ivey. If you want to do finance and aren't sure if math is for you I'd do Ivey. If you're worried your ECs aren't enough, Schulich should still accept you. Schulich is also a great school, with top notch networking opportunities.

RE: Earnings. Highest earnings is not a great indicator at all for quality of program, and it should have very little weighting at all in your choice of school.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify my comments in the first paragraph. Math at the university level is hard, theres no denying that. However every university program is challenging. If you go to Schulich you'll be studying just as much as if you do DD. However you need to decide if you're willing to put in the effort to learning math that is at times very challenging. University math is hard, as it should be, but there's no reason to be terrified and run in the other direction if you weren't able to do integrals in grade 2. You don't have to be a genius to succeed, but it is a challenging degree.



What is the drop out rate for DD? Will I survive if I have a low 90s in both Advanced Functions and Calculus in Gr 12?



The problem with this post like many other posts on this forum is that you're thinking too linearly. Your mark in high school AdvFunc/Calc is not a very good indicator of how well you will do in UW math.
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A photo of Nick0rz Nick0rz

@immaculatedx wrote

@ootphr wrote

@Nick0rz wrote

@mundane12321 wrote

@ootphr wrote
I am grade 12 students who is going into business. However, I do not know what to specialize in business.
I am confident of having a 90+ avg, but my ECs do not standout. Is it still possible to get into schools that are looking for well-rounded students like Schulich or Ivey?

How much does Queens Commerce weigh ECs?

And which of these four programs will bring me a better job after graduating?

Any helpful response would be appreciated.



I highly doubt that you'll enjoy the UW& WLU double degree especially if you don't have a clear understanding of what you area of business you would like to specialize in. UW math is no joke, and I am already hearing rumours that people dropped out of the program already. Unless you're getting 100% (and winning all the UW math contests and stuff) in high school math, you'll most likely to struggle in waterloo math. So only go to that program if you really, really like math... not to mention the first yr comp programming course that kills everyone.

Additionally, you may only find this combination of math&business helpful if you're thinking of going into quantitative finance, meaning a lot of math involved business. However it seems like a lot of drop outs from DD go into WLU BBA, which seems like a solid business program, provided that you get a co-op placement. WLU BBA seems to be stepping up their game and slowly getting out of their "2nd tier" reputation amongst recruiters...

I guess an easier alternative to UW/WLU double degree would be doing 2+2 at western with Bachelor of math degree and HBA. But honestly, no one majors in math at uwo... like, no one.

lol, what's your definition of "better job?" like, you don't even know what you want to do upon graduation... Obviously consulting and finance brings in the big bucks but you'll probably working like 60-80 hours a week or so...

but ivey graduates does have the highest figure earnings amongst any other business programs in canada... (according to the brochure) but QC kids would disagree... as always.





Actually, I think DD is great if you don't know what area of business you want to specialize in, since you don't pick a specialization until year 4 (or 5 depending on how you lay out your courses). Yes people will of already dropped out. The drop rate is 50% by the end of first year. You are really exaggerating the difficulty of the math. Doing well in contests is a great identifier of whether you'll do well, however it isn't the end all and be all. There's a great community amongst DD's, we work together, which makes assignments funner/easier. Last night there were about 10 of us all working on 2 CS assignments at the math building until around 4am. Its hard, but all of uni is hard. The first year programming course is dead easy if you have any CS experience, and its also very achievable for people to do VERY VERY well with no cs background at all.

It isn't just quant finance, but every area of finance. For example, Teachers Pension and BMO absolutely LOVE DD students. This is for everything from private equity, to IB to more quantitative things.

Alright now for my less biased side... If you want consulting go to Queens or Ivey. If you want to do finance and aren't sure if math is for you I'd do Ivey. If you're worried your ECs aren't enough, Schulich should still accept you. Schulich is also a great school, with top notch networking opportunities.

RE: Earnings. Highest earnings is not a great indicator at all for quality of program, and it should have very little weighting at all in your choice of school.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify my comments in the first paragraph. Math at the university level is hard, theres no denying that. However every university program is challenging. If you go to Schulich you'll be studying just as much as if you do DD. However you need to decide if you're willing to put in the effort to learning math that is at times very challenging. University math is hard, as it should be, but there's no reason to be terrified and run in the other direction if you weren't able to do integrals in grade 2. You don't have to be a genius to succeed, but it is a challenging degree.



What is the drop out rate for DD? Will I survive if I have a low 90s in both Advanced Functions and Calculus in Gr 12?



The problem with this post like many other posts on this forum is that you're thinking too linearly. Your mark in high school AdvFunc/Calc is not a very good indicator of how well you will do in UW math.



Drop out rate is 50% give or take. I feel like its lower in CS then compared to math though. CS I'd peg at 30%.

Everyone coming into DD has 90's in math for the most part (my math average was 89.3 FWIW), however as math, especially in the first few years, introduces a lot of proofs, and the idea of proving things, it can be very difficult for many people. I know for myself personally, I had never done proofs before, and it was incredibly foreign to me. If I was in the math DD, I probably wouldn't of continued on with math. University math is all problem solving questions, and proofs (for the most part). Basic application questions makes up a very small portion of what you'll be marked on. Thats the difficult thing for many people to adjust to, as HS math tends to be simple application. Plug in the numbers, follow a formula, and your done. Uni math forces you to think, apply knowledge in different ways, and prove/do things you may of never seen in full before.


EDIT: UW is developing a series of "intro to proofs" videos, done by Steven Furino. I had the opportunity to give them a test drive last year in MATH 136, and they were great. I'm not sure if they're done in full yet, but they'll be a great help for all students to find out what a proof really is, and how to do it.
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A photo of TFE TFE
Im a first-year in the Double Degree program and I can say with full confidence that the BMath/BBA is a pretty intense program. That said, its probably similar to the workload in most other top programs. In high school, I had really high math marks and did pretty well on contests. Even with that, the math here is very difficult. They are taking steps to make it easier, but assignments will cause a lot of frustration. This sounds cliche, but if you're smart enough to get in, you're smart enough to stay in. Just do the work.
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A photo of SBStudent SBStudent
All of the schools you listed are reputable, and I don't don't think you can go wrong with either one.

I can't say too much about Queens, but I do know that Ivey has very good placements for Finance in the US.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned anything about Schulich yet. It's not the easiest to get into, but it's a really great experience once you get in. We have numerous clubs that allow you to investigate the various fields of business and give you ample opportunity to network.

You don't specialize until third year (and that's if you want to), so you have a good two years to explore your options and interests. Within Schulich, I see no problem entering Accounting, Finance or Marketing and exiting with a good job. If you're not sure what you want to do in business, I think Schulich is a great choice.

In the end, the job you get depends entirely on you. A university can only do so much to help you, but if you put in a lot of effort into pursuing what you want to achieve, you will achieve it.
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A photo of Nick0rz Nick0rz

@SBStudent wrote
All of the schools you listed are reputable, and I don't don't think you can go wrong with either one.

I can't say too much about Queens, but I do know that Ivey has very good placements for Finance in the US.

I'm surprised nobody mentioned anything about Schulich yet. It's not the easiest to get into, but it's a really great experience once you get in. We have numerous clubs that allow you to investigate the various fields of business and give you ample opportunity to network.

You don't specialize until third year (and that's if you want to), so you have a good two years to explore your options and interests. Within Schulich, I see no problem entering Accounting, Finance or Marketing and exiting with a good job. If you're not sure what you want to do in business, I think Schulich is a great choice.

In the end, the job you get depends entirely on you. A university can only do so much to help you, but if you put in a lot of effort into pursuing what you want to achieve, you will achieve it.


Not to hate on Schulich (love it! top notch school), but you can declare a major in 4th year at WLU, giving you a whole 3 years to explore your interests!

+9001 to your last statement though, whole heartedly agree.
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@SBStudent wrote

In the end, the job you get depends entirely on you. A university can only do so much to help you, but if you put in a lot of effort into pursuing what you want to achieve, you will achieve it.



I agree with this, however each of the school's have different reputations for the most common career path.

My personal impressions on the reputations of schools are that Ivey and QC are finance oriented, Schulich is CA focused, and double degree is also finance, but more oriented to the technical aspects, such as algo-trading being an actuary.



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A photo of QueensCommerceTyler QueensCommerceTyler
Here's my quick plug for QC:

Despite what many people say, most business students have no idea what they want to concentrate on in university/life.

At Queen's you take two years of compulsory courses in the business program. By the end of your second year, you will have completed an entire years worth of marketing, finance, and accounting, as well as many half-year courses (IT management, organizational behaviour, HR, etc.). In third year students begin to specify their studies, however some still remain general if they haven't decided on a path yet.

In terms of jobs, I would have to slightly disagree with the posters above. I can't speak for other schools, but Queen's focuses on placing its graduating students in high-quality jobs. Companies come to Queen's and interview business students in our own building. This is all set up through our careers centre.

That's my ten cents. If you have any other questions, I'll be watching this thread or just PM me.
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A photo of onlymatthew onlymatthew

@QueensCommerceTyler wrote

Despite what many people say, most business students have no idea what they want to concentrate on in university/life.





This is extremely true. High school doesn't really equip you with the knowledge to really understand what different career fields are actually like. The result is a bunch of business students with vague generalizations of each field that hope to capitalize on their "untapped well of business ability" in upper years.

The ultimate business keener mindset:

1. Go to prestigious-ish program
2. ???
3. ???
4. Profit
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