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Mac Health Sci and Private School Marks

A photo of Victorinox Victorinox
I'm sure many of you have read the articles published in the Toronto Star regarding private schools (otherwise known as credit mills) around the GTA and their grading practices.

For those who haven't, here they are:
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1055391--star-investigation-student-questions-marks-from-a-high-school-credit-mill
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1054778
http://www.thestar.com/news/article/1055379

tl;dr
Essentially, these articles are about private schools around the GTA giving out extremely inflated marks to high school students (Undercover Star reporter had her mark randomly boosted 13% + countless other similar incidences). Note that these private schools are the kinds that can be found at your local plaza, where you pay a shady guy ~$500 for a guaranteed 95% in almost any course. They are different from the legitimate private schools, such as UCC and UTS. It's common knowledge that private schools, especially around the GTA, have been giving out inflated marks for years, however this is apparently the first time the issue has been exposed on such a large scale.

Does anyone else find it disturbing that highly competitive undergrad programs, such as Mac Health Sci and the top tier business schools, do not differentiate in the slightest between private school marks and day school marks? Do they really not care at ALL where their 3500-4500 applicants each year obtained their marks from? If this is truly the case, I'm sure an unbelievable amount of applicants to Mac Health Sci, Queens Commerce, Schulich, Ivey, or any other competitive program have gotten marks from these private institutions. Of course, there are people who are in these programs who actually worked for their marks. Personally, I know more than 10 people from my school who magically pulled mid 90s in ENG4U from various private schools around the GTA (I won't name them), when they could barely manage an 80 in grade 11 day school English. As far as I know, Waterloo is the only university that actually publicly states that marks will be deducted for courses taken outside day school. Ontario's education system is truly trash, and I hope the admissions committees of these highly competitive programs see the true value of these garbage private school marks.

BTW, good luck to all who are applying this year ^^
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17 replies
 
A photo of inthemaking inthemaking
Not really, those people will fail out by 2nd year in BHSc if they don't actually know how to work hard for their marks.

BHSc already tries to put less importance on marks by only taking into account the quality of the supp app once a student has a 90+. Doesn't matter if you have a private school 99% average, if your supp app stinks then you're not getting in.

In my class, the vast majority of people were from public schools. And no one went to a private school as sketchy as the one in the article, the ones that did graduate from private schools were from Upper Canada, Havergal, Hillfield, UTS etc.
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A photo of ktel ktel
Coming from Alberta I can't believe that Ontario allows this to happen. This could never happen in Alberta, because a common diploma exam is worth 50% of your final mark. I think it really discredits the Ontario education system as a whole, which is unfortunate
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A photo of Victorinox Victorinox
Haha yea Ontario should seriously implement standardized testing like the other provinces.
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A photo of charlotteliza charlotteliza
Sure it's disheartening, but how can most universities discriminate on where courses were taken when some people have legitimate reasons for taking them outside of day school. That'd be like them adjusting your average based on how 'hard' your school was. I have a friend in Oakville who's school will give out mid 90s in english; you have to work your but off to get an 85 in mine. And it really doesn't matter too much. The students who were well prepared in high school will do better in university where it will truely count. Sure they get into the best schools but they will do poorly.
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A photo of rosered93 rosered93
For BHSc acceptance, as soon as you get over 90%, your marks cease to matter. You're in the pool and then it's your supplementary application. Those are marked by multiple individuals, completely blind to the marks associated with them. Acceptances are sent out on that basis alone.
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A photo of andrewk512 andrewk512
"Momentum can be deferred, but it must always be paid back, in full."

If you're 'cheating' to get into this program you're really only hurting yourself. Having it easy in high school won't do you any favors in university.

I think you're overestimating the value of undergrad programs. Health sci isn't some 'omfg prestige' program once you get here, and people in charge of admissions do have better things to do than compile a chart of high school difficulties and scale marks accordingly.
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A photo of need2succeed need2succeed
...........

O.K. so I go to a private school and I am honestly so sick of hearing this over and over again. No, we don't pay for our marks and my marks are definitely not, well in the way you so explicitly put it, "garbage". What my parents really pay for is a more sheltered environment than that of my town's local public school.

There are a ton of smart kids in both public AND private schools. If you don't believe me, then just say that to all the awards, medals, distinctions and trophies me and my friends have won from contests and competitions in which both private AND public school students participated. And so my parents can afford the school, so what? Me and my friends don't call you guys "hobo druggies" (yes, I know this is harsh but I'm trying to prove a point) so I hope you don't call us "rich spoiled snobs" just because we wear ties and blazers to school.

The value of a person comes from what (s)he accomplishes in life, not from these oh so ignorantly dubbed stereotypes.

PEACE.

Try to spread the love, not the hate.
And you want to be a doctor? -_-
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A photo of aquarius aquarius
We had huge discussion about this at our class after one of our classamates told us she went to the private school mentioned in the ad for english in the summer.she apparently saw the ad on paper and thought since she is not doing anything in the summer, might as well take the English grade 12.
Her experience was totally different. The teacher was very strict and told them from start not to ask for mark bumping and she will not entertain such request either. Some of the stuffs they did in my opinion was much heavier and in detail than we are doing in our school.Lots of research, at the reference library too.
We all came out with the conclusion, I don't think it's the school but it's the teachers. Maybe some teachers feel they need to exaggerate marks to protect themselves maybe from being unemployed. We have teachers in our public school who I personally feel does the samething.and what about virtual schools and correspondence schools etc.How are they any better than some of these private schools.Who is monitoring the assignements and the quiz etc.
The bottom line is if u get marks that u don't deserve, u are absolutely not going to make past 1st year.Even if your supp. is what is going to be looked at , how do u know it wasn't written by somebody? You cannot cheat your entire life, eventually u will fail and I guess once u are in 2nd year, u may just know who actually bought their marks since they are not there to continue the journey with u.

Until we can have standardtized testing in Ontario, this kind of story will absolutely continue.....



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A photo of crazyfrog007 crazyfrog007
Just yesterday, my class had a presentation from our guidance councellors regarding the application process, scholarships, admissions, etc. and one of the students' questions was whether private school marks will be counted equally with public school marks and their response was NO. They said that near the begging of the school year, there was a metting between university representatives and school staff from most schools in Ontario. It was about the cheating with marks that was going on in private schools. Finally, they have come to a conclusion that private school marks will be under-counted compared to day school marks. But the catch is that not all private schools are corrupt, so every university in Canada is being provided with a list of certified schools that can be trusted and not trusted by the education board of Canada. Honestly, this is a good thing because its fair to all the students who try hard to get their marks rather than pay to get marks.
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A photo of JackSparrow JackSparrow

@need2succeed wrote
...........

O.K. so I go to a private school and I am honestly so sick of hearing this over and over again. No, we don't pay for our marks and my marks are definitely not, well in the way you so explicitly put it, "garbage". What my parents really pay for is a more sheltered environment than that of my town's local public school.

There are a ton of smart kids in both public AND private schools. If you don't believe me, then just say that to all the awards, medals, distinctions and trophies me and my friends have won from contests and competitions in which both private AND public school students participated. And so my parents can afford the school, so what? Me and my friends don't call you guys "hobo druggies" (yes, I know this is harsh but I'm trying to prove a point) so I hope you don't call us "rich spoiled snobs" just because we wear ties and blazers to school.

The value of a person comes from what (s)he accomplishes in life, not from these oh so ignorantly dubbed stereotypes.

PEACE.

Try to spread the love, not the hate.
And you want to be a doctor? -_-



Hi,

I think you might have misunderstood the kind of private schools people are complaining about. The OP, as well as the articles, were talking about those private schools where you pay money for 1 or 2 courses, not the legitimate kinds (UTS, UCC, + a bunch of other good private schools) where you do all your courses in. I'm sure you go to a well respected private school and you're not paying ~$3000 for 6 courses to some ghetto plaza school.
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A photo of Victorinox Victorinox

@JackSparrow wrote

@need2succeed wrote
...........

O.K. so I go to a private school and I am honestly so sick of hearing this over and over again. No, we don't pay for our marks and my marks are definitely not, well in the way you so explicitly put it, "garbage". What my parents really pay for is a more sheltered environment than that of my town's local public school.

There are a ton of smart kids in both public AND private schools. If you don't believe me, then just say that to all the awards, medals, distinctions and trophies me and my friends have won from contests and competitions in which both private AND public school students participated. And so my parents can afford the school, so what? Me and my friends don't call you guys "hobo druggies" (yes, I know this is harsh but I'm trying to prove a point) so I hope you don't call us "rich spoiled snobs" just because we wear ties and blazers to school.

The value of a person comes from what (s)he accomplishes in life, not from these oh so ignorantly dubbed stereotypes.

PEACE.

Try to spread the love, not the hate.
And you want to be a doctor? -_-



Hi,

I think you might have misunderstood the kind of private schools people are complaining about. The OP, as well as the articles, were talking about those private schools where you pay money for 1 or 2 courses, not the legitimate kinds (UTS, UCC, + a bunch of other good private schools) where you do all your courses in. I'm sure you go to a well respected private school and you're not paying ~$3000 for 6 courses to some ghetto plaza school.



Hey,
Sorry if I offended you need2succeed, but I am definitely not trying to undermine the legitimacy of well established private schools. I'm sure we can all agree that there are numerous excellent private schools in Ontario, and I am sure you're attending one of them. The ones in the articles, as well as the ones that people are complaining about, are the private schools where students basically pay a few hundred dollars to buy a high mark in 1 or maybe even 2 or 3 courses. No hard feelings <3

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A photo of need2succeed need2succeed

@Victorinox wrote

@JackSparrow wrote

@need2succeed wrote
...........

O.K. so I go to a private school and I am honestly so sick of hearing this over and over again. No, we don't pay for our marks and my marks are definitely not, well in the way you so explicitly put it, "garbage". What my parents really pay for is a more sheltered environment than that of my town's local public school.

There are a ton of smart kids in both public AND private schools. If you don't believe me, then just say that to all the awards, medals, distinctions and trophies me and my friends have won from contests and competitions in which both private AND public school students participated. And so my parents can afford the school, so what? Me and my friends don't call you guys "hobo druggies" (yes, I know this is harsh but I'm trying to prove a point) so I hope you don't call us "rich spoiled snobs" just because we wear ties and blazers to school.

The value of a person comes from what (s)he accomplishes in life, not from these oh so ignorantly dubbed stereotypes.

PEACE.

Try to spread the love, not the hate.
And you want to be a doctor? -_-



Hi,

I think you might have misunderstood the kind of private schools people are complaining about. The OP, as well as the articles, were talking about those private schools where you pay money for 1 or 2 courses, not the legitimate kinds (UTS, UCC, + a bunch of other good private schools) where you do all your courses in. I'm sure you go to a well respected private school and you're not paying ~$3000 for 6 courses to some ghetto plaza school.



Hey,
Sorry if I offended you need2succeed, but I am definitely not trying to undermine the legitimacy of well established private schools. I'm sure we can all agree that there are numerous excellent private schools in Ontario, and I am sure you're attending one of them. The ones in the articles, as well as the ones that people are complaining about, are the private schools where students basically pay a few hundred dollars to buy a high mark in 1 or maybe even 2 or 3 courses. No hard feelings <3





None at all. :) It's all good.
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A photo of JackSparrow JackSparrow

@rosered93 wrote
For BHSc acceptance, as soon as you get over 90%, your marks cease to matter. You're in the pool and then it's your supplementary application. Those are marked by multiple individuals, completely blind to the marks associated with them. Acceptances are sent out on that basis alone.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought marks mattered in the case of a tie for supplementary scores, which I assume happens quite often since you're only scored by 3 people.
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A photo of rosered93 rosered93

@JackSparrow wrote

@rosered93 wrote
For BHSc acceptance, as soon as you get over 90%, your marks cease to matter. You're in the pool and then it's your supplementary application. Those are marked by multiple individuals, completely blind to the marks associated with them. Acceptances are sent out on that basis alone.



Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought marks mattered in the case of a tie for supplementary scores, which I assume happens quite often since you're only scored by 3 people.



Not realllllly. Realistically, by the time they go through the 3000+ applications, there will be enough that are rated 7/7 or 6/7 to fill the ~250 offers. They'll offer to all the 7s, then the 6s. There is a huuuuuge component of luck/chance/probability/whatever you want to call it involved. So don't kill yourself worrying about a 96 over a 93 for this program's admittance.
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A photo of shalindrini shalindrini
Hi, I am new to the whole student awards thing and I would just like to talk to anyone who is a McMaster HealthScience student. I have just finished my draft supplementary application and am expecting a 94% average by midterms (next week). I really hope I get in because I do not know what to do if I do not.

My main questions for you are: do you need to do math in the actual program?
and what marks can I expect if I am accepted. I went to the university fair and one of the representatives told me the degree is not bell-curved- is that true? and if so what is the average GPA (specific please)

Thanyou : )
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A photo of inthemaking inthemaking

@shalindrini wrote
Hi, I am new to the whole student awards thing and I would just like to talk to anyone who is a McMaster HealthScience student. I have just finished my draft supplementary application and am expecting a 94% average by midterms (next week). I really hope I get in because I do not know what to do if I do not.

My main questions for you are: do you need to do math in the actual program?
and what marks can I expect if I am accepted. I went to the university fair and one of the representatives told me the degree is not bell-curved- is that true? and if so what is the average GPA (specific please)

Thanyou : )



You have to take stats in 2nd year but there is very minimal math involved..just calculating t-tests, ANOVA etc.

There's no bell curving in health sci courses. Average GPA is pretty high, probably in the low-mid 80s (3.7 ish) because most people are aiming for med school. The marks you will get will depend on the amount of effort you put in. If you developed good work habits in high school then you will have no trouble achieving 3.7+.
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A photo of shalindrini shalindrini
thankyou!!! : )
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