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McGill or Ivey?

A photo of asian123 asian123
I really wanted to go to McGill for a long time, but i know that ivey has a better business program.


McGill:

I wanted to go to montreal, away from my parents and live independently. Good reputation and still a good program.



Ivey:

Better program.

However i want to keep my options open to study law at grad level, and i think that Ivey is too focused on business. Also, i dislike the 2+2 program, and god forbid if something bad happens and i fail my first 2 years, all ill have is a useless BMOS degree. I also dont like the university, campus and city.
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A photo of heesoup heesoup
You can still do law with Ivey. The dual degree program. Although it is very very expensive then even though it already is haha
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
I'm also thinking of doing law for grad, although I haven't been accepted to Ivey yet. I think you should choose Ivey because it has a much better program, and also, you can still do law after your HBA.
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It seems like you like McGill a lot better...go there then :)

McGill is a great school too so you got no worries in that aspect. And I totally understand the 2+2 thing...it scares me as well :(
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A photo of axiom2true axiom2true

@Username81 wrote
It seems like you like McGill a lot better...go there then :)

McGill is a great school too so you got no worries in that aspect. And I totally understand the 2+2 thing...it scares me as well :(



2+2 "scares" me too. I can't imagine that someone with an Ivey HBA would be anywhere near the same amount of learning as a QC student would be after 4 years, or a McGill or UofT Commerce student. It seems absurd that everything is crammed into 2 years -- literally you take 7.5 courses per year in HBA1 and HBA2 which is a LOT. I'm not slamming Ivey in any way, as I'd certainly go there. I'm simply very curious, trying to figure out pros and cons.

And business is not "easy" so that's hardly an excuse.

I'm debating between Ivey and Queen's. Going to be a tough call.

Would someone care to advocate for Ivey here? :cheers:
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A photo of Serendipity Serendipity
Two things I'm worried about with Ivey:
1. Summer Internships, with Ivey AEO you'll be hard-pressed to get a SA in your second year summer. Which means that in later summers you'll be competing for summer internships with people with a previous position.
2. I'll be doing 2 years of basically a "crap" degree - BMOS, in the off chance I don't make the 80% cutoff I end up wasting two years of my life and 30k.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
I agree with you 100% (applied to both but still anxiously waiting). It is a LOT of work, and I know university isn't easy, but Ivey seems like they drown you with work :(

Like it's a great school and obviously I want to be accepted, but maintaining the 80% university average even throws a bit of a fright into me...whereas Queen's and McGill, once you're in you're in.

However I do like the sound of the case method...seems pretty interesting/cool/fun.

All a matter of personal preference though. I mean the schools you've listed are all some of the best in Canada, so really you can't go wrong no matter which you choose.
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@Serendipity wrote
Two things I'm worried about with Ivey:
1. Summer Internships, with Ivey AEO you'll be hard-pressed to get a SA in your second year summer. Which means that in later summers you'll be competing for summer internships with people with a previous position.
2. I'll be doing 2 years of basically a "crap" degree - BMOS, in the off chance I don't make the 80% cutoff I end up wasting two years of my life and 30k.



30k? Is BMOS that expensive?
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A photo of valdore valdore
It sounds like you're attempting to convince yourself that you want to go to Ivey, when in reality you already know that you would be much happier at McGill.

Know that, as far as reputation and quality of education is concerned, McGill is one of the best schools in the country - the difference between it and Ivey will be largely irrelevant over the long term, and will have a much less significant affect on future success than will your own abilities.

The reality is that, when you're comparing the best business schools in the country, they're all a lot closer together in quality than what a lot of people on this forum would like to believe.

[Yes, you can argue against what I have said above, as it is largely a matter of opinion - and opinion, on these matters, is incredibly difficult to sway.]
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A photo of Serendipity Serendipity

@heesoup wrote

@Serendipity wrote
Two things I'm worried about with Ivey:
1. Summer Internships, with Ivey AEO you'll be hard-pressed to get a SA in your second year summer. Which means that in later summers you'll be competing for summer internships with people with a previous position.
2. I'll be doing 2 years of basically a "crap" degree - BMOS, in the off chance I don't make the 80% cutoff I end up wasting two years of my life and 30k.



30k? Is BMOS that expensive?



10k res+meal plan + 5k tuition per year.
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A photo of heesoup heesoup

@Serendipity wrote

@heesoup wrote

@Serendipity wrote
Two things I'm worried about with Ivey:
1. Summer Internships, with Ivey AEO you'll be hard-pressed to get a SA in your second year summer. Which means that in later summers you'll be competing for summer internships with people with a previous position.
2. I'll be doing 2 years of basically a "crap" degree - BMOS, in the off chance I don't make the 80% cutoff I end up wasting two years of my life and 30k.



30k? Is BMOS that expensive?



10k res+meal plan + 5k tuition per year.



Ah I see.
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A photo of transformerz transformerz

@axiom2true wrote

@Username81 wrote
It seems like you like McGill a lot better...go there then :)

McGill is a great school too so you got no worries in that aspect. And I totally understand the 2+2 thing...it scares me as well :(



2+2 "scares" me too. I can't imagine that someone with an Ivey HBA would be anywhere near the same amount of learning as a QC student would be after 4 years, or a McGill or UofT Commerce student. It seems absurd that everything is crammed into 2 years -- literally you take 7.5 courses per year in HBA1 and HBA2 which is a LOT. I'm not slamming Ivey in any way, as I'd certainly go there. I'm simply very curious, trying to figure out pros and cons.

And business is not "easy" so that's hardly an excuse.

I'm debating between Ivey and Queen's. Going to be a tough call.

Would someone care to advocate for Ivey here? :cheers:





I'm a transfer applicant to Ivey and a previous AEO. I'll give this a go.

Ivey should be the most selective business program in Canada because it uses 2 filters - high school marks/application + 2 years of university marks/application.

In essence, Ivey removes the element of "inflated high school marks".

As for the 2+2 structure, I personally love it. I was a very all rounded student coming out of high school and wanted to pursue different fields. Not doing business immediately gave me the opportunity to study another field, which is absolutely invaluable in the long run. Compared to "strict" business grads, I potentially have a solid understanding of another field + an ivey business education in 4 years. Want to go into politics? Do political science + Ivey, the combination is up to you. More and more, businesses are intertwined with other fields - engineering, science, computer science, media, poli sci...etc.

The first day of HBA1 will be with 3rd year uni students who have experience in completely different fields. Imagine the diversity of perspectives that will add to discussion. I believe the HBA is the only undergrad business program that does this. MBA's do the exact same thing because they recognize its the classmates that add the most value.

Taking 7.5 courses is hard, but having spoken to current students, it's more a good challenge than some EngSci nightmare. Some courses are easier than others. They still have social lives, ECs, etc. By the time you're in 3rd year uni, you should be fine.

Kids scared about keeping AEO shouldn't go to Ivey. If you have a 90%+ in HS and can't keep an 80% in uni... you're not as smart as you think. This is business, where risks yield rewards. Yes the 2 years of HBA will be intense, but it's a great prep for the work place.

Word is, if you really want the Ivey education, work for it and it'll reward you. Those who want the easy way out, it's probably not the right program for you.







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@transformerz wrote

@axiom2true wrote

@Username81 wrote
It seems like you like McGill a lot better...go there then :)

McGill is a great school too so you got no worries in that aspect. And I totally understand the 2+2 thing...it scares me as well :(



2+2 "scares" me too. I can't imagine that someone with an Ivey HBA would be anywhere near the same amount of learning as a QC student would be after 4 years, or a McGill or UofT Commerce student. It seems absurd that everything is crammed into 2 years -- literally you take 7.5 courses per year in HBA1 and HBA2 which is a LOT. I'm not slamming Ivey in any way, as I'd certainly go there. I'm simply very curious, trying to figure out pros and cons.

And business is not "easy" so that's hardly an excuse.

I'm debating between Ivey and Queen's. Going to be a tough call.

Would someone care to advocate for Ivey here? :cheers:





I'm a transfer applicant to Ivey and a previous AEO. I'll give this a go.

Ivey should be the most selective business program in Canada because it uses 2 filters - high school marks/application + 2 years of university marks/application.

In essence, Ivey removes the element of "inflated high school marks".

As for the 2+2 structure, I personally love it. I was a very all rounded student coming out of high school and wanted to pursue different fields. Not doing business immediately gave me the opportunity to study another field, which is absolutely invaluable in the long run. Compared to "strict" business grads, I potentially have a solid understanding of another field + an ivey business education in 4 years. Want to go into politics? Do political science + Ivey, the combination is up to you. More and more, businesses are intertwined with other fields - engineering, science, computer science, media, poli sci...etc.

The first day of HBA1 will be with 3rd year uni students who have experience in completely different fields. Imagine the diversity of perspectives that will add to discussion. I believe the HBA is the only undergrad business program that does this. MBA's do the exact same thing because they recognize its the classmates that add the most value.

Taking 7.5 courses is hard, but having spoken to current students, it's more a good challenge than some EngSci nightmare. Some courses are easier than others. They still have social lives, ECs, etc. By the time you're in 3rd year uni, you should be fine.

Kids scared about keeping AEO shouldn't go to Ivey. If you have a 90%+ in HS and can't keep an 80% in uni... you're not as smart as you think. This is business, where risks yield rewards. Yes the 2 years of HBA will be intense, but it's a great prep for the work place.

Word is, if you really want the Ivey education, work for it and it'll reward you. Those who want the easy way out, it's probably not the right program for you.





Thanks for your insight. So you did get AEO status during high school but went somewhere else?
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A photo of Pharger Pharger
So what are the benefits of Ivey so far?
I've heard:
1)Case Method (Harvard style )
2)Highschool + Yr1+2 mark inflation remover
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A photo of transformerz transformerz

@Pharger wrote
So what are the benefits of Ivey so far?
I've heard:
1)Case Method (Harvard style )
2)Highschool + Yr1+2 mark inflation remover




Well you just cited the teaching quality + the student quality. What else do you want?

You put together an old prestigious business school with the greatest alumni influence that

- consistently produces alumni that hold C-suite positions (1/4 are MD, CEO, VP)
- attracts profs from the Ivy's down south
- produces the cases that the rest of Canadian business schools use + largest producer of Asian cases
- has the greatest number of Top 40 under 40 alumni of any Canadian school
- attracts the best firms to recruit, check placement reports (again tons from the U.S)
- is the first North American business school to establish permanent campus in Asia (H.K)
- holds partnerships for case writing in India, China, Taiwan
- 60 K mean starting salary after graduation (what's McGill's?)
- best career management center period. Summer placement is 92%. Ask around.
- tight knit classroom experience. You're put in a class of 75 the whole year. It's a lot better than lecture halls and tutorials... if you disagree, UofT is your man.
- oh, did you see the new building coming your way? Don't deny you can't see yourself there.

Just top of my head. Seriously, look at corporations and their exec teams. You'll see Ivey over represented.
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@ transformerz

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything, but do you mind sharing your thoughts on how good Ivey is for accounting. I didn't really think of it as that good of an accounting school, and the whole 2+2 BMOS scared me off. I don't know if I regret not applying, because that means I would have to decide between Queen's/Schulich/Laurier/Waterloo(if I get in)/and Ivey. But maybe I will consider transferring, keep my options open.
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A photo of LampShade LampShade
If you are willing to take the risk and are willing to pay for the schooling, Ivey's an excellent choice. Still a bit confused about your 80% curve in HBA though.
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A photo of transformerz transformerz

@johnnycanuck wrote
@ transformerz

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything, but do you mind sharing your thoughts on how good Ivey is for accounting. I didn't really think of it as that good of an accounting school, and the whole 2+2 BMOS scared me off. I don't know if I regret not applying, because that means I would have to decide between Queen's/Schulich/Laurier/Waterloo(if I get in)/and Ivey. But maybe I will consider transferring, keep my options open.





No point worrying about it now. Funny enough, there are lots of Waterloo AFM type transfer applicants- really shows something.

If you are sure you want to do accounting, the schools you've listed will get you there. You'll have to consider the cost-benefit of Ivey. If you find out you like the other business areas and want a better rounded business education, consider transfer. I'd say stick with UW or Schulich - best bang for the buck.

Another point, placement report for 2009-2010 permanent hirings actually show an increase for accounting hires (32%). Plenty of reasons I can think of for that.
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A photo of transformerz transformerz

@LampShade wrote
If you are willing to take the risk and are willing to pay for the schooling, Ivey's an excellent choice. Still a bit confused about your 80% curve in HBA though.




Geez, I'm just procrastinating now.


What are you confused about? Your class is curved to an 80%. That means the average Joe will be at an 80%. The standard deviation is very small (about 5% or so), meaning the majority of the top 25% will be 82-85%, and the bottom will be 75%-78%.

This is to help recruiters distinguish between students. Don't worry about the actual percent, its more of your ranking in the class.


I'm only going to say this once- getting 80% overall in university is NOT THAT HARD. Especially if you're in BMOS... kids are just coasting to get to Ivey. If I were interested in something business related right after HS, economics would be my pick.

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@transformerz wrote

@johnnycanuck wrote
@ transformerz

I don't mean to hijack this thread or anything, but do you mind sharing your thoughts on how good Ivey is for accounting. I didn't really think of it as that good of an accounting school, and the whole 2+2 BMOS scared me off. I don't know if I regret not applying, because that means I would have to decide between Queen's/Schulich/Laurier/Waterloo(if I get in)/and Ivey. But maybe I will consider transferring, keep my options open.





No point worrying about it now. Funny enough, there are lots of Waterloo AFM type transfer applicants- really shows something.

If you are sure you want to do accounting, the schools you've listed will get you there. You'll have to consider the cost-benefit of Ivey. If you find out you like the other business areas and want a better rounded business education, consider transfer. I'd say stick with UW or Schulich - best bang for the buck.

Another point, placement report for 2009-2010 permanent hirings actually show an increase for accounting hires (32%). Plenty of reasons I can think of for that.

hanks for the info!
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A photo of LampShade LampShade
Confused because the curve is so high. But seeing the standard deviation, makes a lot more sense. I know U of T and McGill curve as well to serve as a ranking system but they curve it down to a 67-70%.

And yeah, 80% isn't necessarily easy but it is very doable. It's just that some people fail to get that and that would be pretty crappy for them but then again, it means they weren't supposed to be in Ivey in the first place haha.
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A photo of Thatguy Thatguy
I'm not going to lie, I am a bit concerned about the 2+2 program. But no one in their right mind wouldn't be, its your future we're talking about.

What I like about 2+2 program is that it eliminates the weaker players, which kind of stabilizes the quality of the alumni network.

As for the 7.5 Credits, it is a lot of work but I am excited. I don't think I can imagine how much work it is, but it is great for training to multitask. If you want to succeed big, then you will need to work 10-16 hours a day and the sooner you get started, the sooner you'll get use to it(and might even enjoy it).

Ivey embraces the survival of the fittest, which is the embodiment of Capitalism. And in business, we are all capitalists.
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A photo of Business1234 Business1234
since ur a big advocate for ivey, can u tell ur opinion over ivey vs queens?

im turned off by the 2+2 system, but is queen's commerce lacking caliber comparing to ivey?
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A photo of transformerz transformerz

@Thatguy wrote
I'm not going to lie, I am a bit concerned about the 2+2 program. But no one in their right mind wouldn't be, its your future we're talking about.

What I like about 2+2 program is that it eliminates the weaker players, which kind of stabilizes the quality of the alumni network.

As for the 7.5 Credits, it is a lot of work but I am excited. I don't think I can imagine how much work it is, but it is great for training to multitask. If you want to succeed big, then you will need to work 10-16 hours a day and the sooner you get started, the sooner you'll get use to it(and might even enjoy it).

Ivey embraces the survival of the fittest, which is the embodiment of Capitalism. And in business, we are all capitalists.




Not going to lie, nicely put. Definitely think about it.
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@Business1234 wrote
since ur a big advocate for ivey, can u tell ur opinion over ivey vs queens?

im turned off by the 2+2 system, but is queen's commerce lacking caliber comparing to ivey?



As a past applicant to both Ivey and QC (and, in the interest of full discretion, a current AEO), I can tell you that Ivey and QC are neck-and-neck when it comes to OVERALL reputation. However, in terms of a specific field... Ivey is generally regarded as a bit stronger for IBanking and Consulting because that's where the alumni connection really helps, whereas QC is more highly regarded for its Marketing program.

Overall, they're both great schools. So why did I pick Ivey?

The 2+2. Look, I know it looks daunting, but think of it this way. First of all, if you get less than 80 in your first two years at any BSchool, you can pretty much kiss your chances at a high-level job goodbye. Secondly, it weeds out a lot of the chaff. (and I mean that...550+ AEO this year, and probably only 350ish go to Ivey, thus ensuring the quality of your classmates (always a good thing) and future alumni). Lastly, it forces you to not rest on your HS accomplishments, but to go out there and do more, which in the process helps you as a student and person.
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A photo of axiom2true axiom2true

@silenthuntr7 wrote

@Business1234 wrote
since ur a big advocate for ivey, can u tell ur opinion over ivey vs queens?

im turned off by the 2+2 system, but is queen's commerce lacking caliber comparing to ivey?



As a past applicant to both Ivey and QC (and, in the interest of full discretion, a current AEO), I can tell you that Ivey and QC are neck-and-neck when it comes to OVERALL reputation. However, in terms of a specific field... Ivey is generally regarded as a bit stronger for IBanking and Consulting because that's where the alumni connection really helps, whereas QC is more highly regarded for its Marketing program.

Overall, they're both great schools. So why did I pick Ivey?

The 2+2. Look, I know it looks daunting, but think of it this way. First of all, if you get less than 80 in your first two years at any BSchool, you can pretty much kiss your chances at a high-level job goodbye. Secondly, it weeds out a lot of the chaff. (and I mean that...550+ AEO this year, and probably only 350ish go to Ivey, thus ensuring the quality of your classmates (always a good thing) and future alumni). Lastly, it forces you to not rest on your HS accomplishments, but to go out there and do more, which in the process helps you as a student and person.



Solid points, I agree.

But students will also be weeded out right at the beginning of Queen's Commerce, Rotman Commerce, or McGill Commerce too. I know many people who transferred to "sketchy" private schools that may get accepted to one of these programs. And these people are dropping out of grade 12 Economics at my school.

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