yconic - Official Western Financial Modelling (+Other Sciences) AEO Thread
Hide Menu

My Feed Money for School Student Help Brands Winners Support Center



Explore yconic
Explore Student Life Topics
Scotiabank
STUDENT CHAMPION
yconic proudly recognizes Student Champion Partners who are providing our community with superior support for their student journeys. Learn More
Student Help Brands

Official Western Financial Modelling (+Other Sciences) AEO Thread

A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
Wanted to start a thread out for all the potential AEOs in science and specifically for those in financial modelling.

I've been set on Loo for a while but tbh I think I'm set on Ivey now :O
Was this helpful? Yes 0
25 replies
 
A photo of CityBoy CityBoy
What made you change your mind :O
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
I was attracted to the versatility of DD ... but in my emails sent out to upper years and program directors, I found myself asking about banking every time, I think I realized that no matter what that's what I wanted to start with and Ivey gave me the best program for that.

I feel that I'm sacrificing a lot of the social aspects at Loo that really wasn't worth it.

Still things that are holding me back are tuition costs and no coop.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@immaculatedx wrote
I was attracted to the versatility of DD ... but in my emails sent out to upper years and program directors, I found myself asking about banking every time, I think I realized that no matter what that's what I wanted to start with and Ivey gave me the best program for that.

I feel that I'm sacrificing a lot of the social aspects at Loo that really wasn't worth it.

Still things that are holding me back are tuition costs and no coop.




Actually, an Ivey degree would be more versatile in the most practical sense - influential alumni that you could leverage and a practical case methodology that is applicable in any function of business.

As you probably figured out, business is rarely about text-book knowledge. It's the application of basic principles. With respect to banking, a undergrad degree will never fully prepare you for a real job - you'd need much more education. What recruiters look for most is potential and fundamental understanding of the markets.

Almost everyone has been intimidated by the tuition, including myself right now. However, through OSAP, bursaries and scholarships, bank loans (which are ridiculously fair...25K per year, prime +0.5%) it's not impossible to finance.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
^
Really.. 25 per year for bank loans? I heard something like this but I don't know how they work. Since I don't have a credit history.. how will they determine how much they will loan me?
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@goldmansachs wrote
^
Really.. 25 per year for bank loans? I heard something like this but I don't know how they work. Since I don't have a credit history.. how will they determine how much they will loan me?



http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/hba/tuition-and-finance/living-expenses.htm

It's on their Financial Aid Brochure with BMO.

For BMO's 25k you will need a co-signer.
Desjardins offers 20K at prime + 1.5% without co-signer.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@mentro wrote

@goldmansachs wrote
^
Really.. 25 per year for bank loans? I heard something like this but I don't know how they work. Since I don't have a credit history.. how will they determine how much they will loan me?



http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/hba/tuition-and-finance/living-expenses.htm

It's on their Financial Aid Brochure with BMO.

For BMO's 25k you will need a co-signer.
Desjardins offers 20K at prime + 1.5% without co-signer.



Yes 25K a year from BMO at prime 0.5% according to what I hear is as good as it gets.

I wasn't too concerned about money after I learned about this information and I don't come from a wealthy family by any means.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of LXY LXY
Although Ivey is potentially better for Banking recruitment, I find that Waterloo exerts it's presence in many other fields. However, there have still been many DDs who have pursued a career in investment banking. Given that you are still 17/18, I wouldn't put all your chips on one hand(or all your money in one mutual fund xD)

Like you, I got both BBA/Bmath and Biomed+AEO. Just to give an alternate perspective, I will be choosing BBA/Bmath, for

1. A more academic atmosphere. First 2 years of Western would not have that.

2. The option to try stuff before committing to one specific career path. Like you, I am considering banking, but I feel like we may be influenced by the monetary factor. If we try it out in DD(RBC CM loves DDs), then maybe we can make a more informed decision.

3. Uniqueness of program. Each year, about 500(soon to be raised) HBAs come out of Western. Each year, 50ish DDs come out of both waterloo and Laurier(so 100ish total). In terms of supply and demand, I'd say that the average DD student would trump the average Ivey student. (if you're top 10 at Ivey, that's another story).

Please give your reasons for either program. I'd be interested to discuss this.

(P.S., part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I've never heard of a banker enjoying his/her job...)
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@LXY wrote
Although Ivey is potentially better for Banking recruitment, I find that Waterloo exerts it's presence in many other fields. However, there have still been many DDs who have pursued a career in investment banking. Given that you are still 17/18, I wouldn't put all your chips on one hand(or all your money in one mutual fund xD)

Like you, I got both BBA/Bmath and Biomed+AEO. Just to give an alternate perspective, I will be choosing BBA/Bmath, for

1. A more academic atmosphere. First 2 years of Western would not have that.

2. The option to try stuff before committing to one specific career path. Like you, I am considering banking, but I feel like we may be influenced by the monetary factor. If we try it out in DD(RBC CM loves DDs), then maybe we can make a more informed decision.

3. Uniqueness of program. Each year, about 500(soon to be raised) HBAs come out of Western. Each year, 50ish DDs come out of both waterloo and Laurier(so 100ish total). In terms of supply and demand, I'd say that the average DD student would trump the average Ivey student. (if you're top 10 at Ivey, that's another story).

Please give your reasons for either program. I'd be interested to discuss this.

(P.S., part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I've never heard of a banker enjoying his/her job...)



There is no personal gain in convincing you which program is better, it's your life. If you want reasons though, I'll shoot.

Note: Ivey is not potentially better for BB, it is better. In such a hyper-competitive field, you'll need all the help you get and having 27% of 22,000 worldwide alumni in finance will be your best friend. DD might help get you in more quantitative fields, but like you mentioned, only if you're "top 10" in your 50 person program.

Source: http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/discover/annual-report/index.htm

1. Yes, if you want "a more academic atmosphere", DD wins for the first 2 years.

2. How exactly will a math/BBA degree "diversify" your career options? It pins you as a quant person off the bat. Once again, if you KNOW you want to do something in quants, then by all means go.

3. Your lack of understanding of what supply/demand really means is what destroys your argument. You argue that because #HBAs> #DD, the average DD must be better? That's just wrong. Ivey can hold 500 students because they are in a feasible position to do so, with its market position, the necessary resources, funding, etc. This is analogous to expanding a business when it is most profitable. Ask most employers in Canada (and US for the matter) whether they'd take Ivey or DD. It's also interesting to note the number of kids from UW/Laurier that try to transfer every year.


BTW, where are placement reports for DD's? Nothing supports empty words than actual figures and at least Ivey has the resources to publish them.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@mentro wrote

@LXY wrote
Although Ivey is potentially better for Banking recruitment, I find that Waterloo exerts it's presence in many other fields. However, there have still been many DDs who have pursued a career in investment banking. Given that you are still 17/18, I wouldn't put all your chips on one hand(or all your money in one mutual fund xD)

Like you, I got both BBA/Bmath and Biomed+AEO. Just to give an alternate perspective, I will be choosing BBA/Bmath, for

1. A more academic atmosphere. First 2 years of Western would not have that.

2. The option to try stuff before committing to one specific career path. Like you, I am considering banking, but I feel like we may be influenced by the monetary factor. If we try it out in DD(RBC CM loves DDs), then maybe we can make a more informed decision.

3. Uniqueness of program. Each year, about 500(soon to be raised) HBAs come out of Western. Each year, 50ish DDs come out of both waterloo and Laurier(so 100ish total). In terms of supply and demand, I'd say that the average DD student would trump the average Ivey student. (if you're top 10 at Ivey, that's another story).

Please give your reasons for either program. I'd be interested to discuss this.

(P.S., part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I've never heard of a banker enjoying his/her job...)



There is no personal gain in convincing you which program is better, it's your life. If you want reasons though, I'll shoot.

Note: Ivey is not potentially better for BB, it is better. In such a hyper-competitive field, you'll need all the help you get and having 27% of 22,000 worldwide alumni in finance will be your best friend. DD might help get you in more quantitative fields, but like you mentioned, only if you're "top 10" in your 50 person program.

Source: http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/discover/annual-report/index.htm

1. Yes, if you want "a more academic atmosphere", DD wins for the first 2 years.

2. How exactly will a math/BBA degree "diversify" your career options? It pins you as a quant person off the bat. Once again, if you KNOW you want to do something in quants, then by all means go.

3. Your lack of understanding of what supply/demand really means is what destroys your argument. You argue that because #HBAs> #DD, the average DD must be better? That's just wrong. Ivey can hold 500 students because they are in a feasible position to do so, with its market position, the necessary resources, funding, etc. This is analogous to expanding a business when it is most profitable. Ask most employers in Canada (and US for the matter) whether they'd take Ivey or DD. It's also interesting to note the number of kids from UW/Laurier that try to transfer every year.


BTW, where are placement reports for DD's? Nothing supports empty words than actual figures and at least Ivey has the resources to publish them.



Both brought up good points. LXY, for the longest time I said hey, DD gives you opportunities for iBank and I shouldn't need to worry about that and worry to get the best education possible for the most versatility - "Substance over Prestige" I would say at the time.

It was argued before however, that Ivey could potentially have way more potential - I'd be getting the same degree Financial Modelling (Which is Stats and Actsci, basically what you'd be doing in Loo Math ofc not as hard) w/ Ivey (WAY higher tier than Laurier BBA).

The uniqueness was something held very important to my heart at the time - honestly IMO it really doesn't matter how many DDs come out or not but just the fact that you'd be in a special program of 60 (& Laurier's 40-50) would make anyone feel a little special. I've talked to recruiters - sure big5s love DDs but many of the jobs you hear are for BO/MO (Back office middle office) jobs. I went around emailing upper years in Double Degree Club and program admins and found myself asking about banking opportunities every time - for some reason I kept trying to justify going to DD because I could still get IBD ... Anyways, the president of DDC told me it was possible, in her year there were like 4 kids who made it in a Canadian/European Bank S&T, and a couple more kids who got TD/BMO investment banking. Ofc it's possible but at the end of the day Ivey is a target - in a field like investment banking, you just can't beat that.

Regarding the academic atmosphere, university is what you make it. I'm certainly way more attracted to the Western social scene. The fact that I almost chose Waterloo proves I don't even mind the crazy amounts of Asian Males (Well, I am :P ) but I definitely felt I'd be sacrificing a lot on that end at Waterloo.

Last comment about your post - You wrote about trying other things and I mentioned versatility - but WHAT ELSE can you do in DD !?!? The main things that they would have an advantage for would be in insurance/risk/actuarial science/stats etc. - All of the more math oriented ... that list also includes better S&T and really quantitative finance opportunities. I think I let my marks in high school math distort my own reality on my mathematic potential. I had insane high marks but I think most of it was a product of my hard work because I was never really good until my senior math courses where the mark mattered.


& Mentro, good points for the most part. One thing I would add is that only a percentage of all the Ivey grads want Finance in the first place. I feel a lot of them just took Ivey over places like Schulich and Queens cause of the party scene and they're rich enough anyways to afford it. But yeah Ivey is the most prestigious business undergrad program hands down and being able to get a dual degree with Western's Financial Modelling (Or something maybe a little less technical) gives you way more options than DD IMHO.

As someone almost 99.9 committed to DD at one point and who literally worshiped Waterloo (Stayed a week at my Friend's Rez to check it out, went to lectures and stuff), it was tough to convince myself that Western may have been the better choice. In the end though, I think I'm better off.

*Edit: I am very interested in discussing this with you LXY, partly to justify my reasonings and to hear yours. And no Mentro, it really isn't about convincing others or winning an argument xD
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@immaculatedx wrote

@mentro wrote

@LXY wrote
Although Ivey is potentially better for Banking recruitment, I find that Waterloo exerts it's presence in many other fields. However, there have still been many DDs who have pursued a career in investment banking. Given that you are still 17/18, I wouldn't put all your chips on one hand(or all your money in one mutual fund xD)

Like you, I got both BBA/Bmath and Biomed+AEO. Just to give an alternate perspective, I will be choosing BBA/Bmath, for

1. A more academic atmosphere. First 2 years of Western would not have that.

2. The option to try stuff before committing to one specific career path. Like you, I am considering banking, but I feel like we may be influenced by the monetary factor. If we try it out in DD(RBC CM loves DDs), then maybe we can make a more informed decision.

3. Uniqueness of program. Each year, about 500(soon to be raised) HBAs come out of Western. Each year, 50ish DDs come out of both waterloo and Laurier(so 100ish total). In terms of supply and demand, I'd say that the average DD student would trump the average Ivey student. (if you're top 10 at Ivey, that's another story).

Please give your reasons for either program. I'd be interested to discuss this.

(P.S., part of my reasoning comes from the fact that I've never heard of a banker enjoying his/her job...)



There is no personal gain in convincing you which program is better, it's your life. If you want reasons though, I'll shoot.

Note: Ivey is not potentially better for BB, it is better. In such a hyper-competitive field, you'll need all the help you get and having 27% of 22,000 worldwide alumni in finance will be your best friend. DD might help get you in more quantitative fields, but like you mentioned, only if you're "top 10" in your 50 person program.

Source: http://www.ivey.uwo.ca/discover/annual-report/index.htm

1. Yes, if you want "a more academic atmosphere", DD wins for the first 2 years.

2. How exactly will a math/BBA degree "diversify" your career options? It pins you as a quant person off the bat. Once again, if you KNOW you want to do something in quants, then by all means go.

3. Your lack of understanding of what supply/demand really means is what destroys your argument. You argue that because #HBAs> #DD, the average DD must be better? That's just wrong. Ivey can hold 500 students because they are in a feasible position to do so, with its market position, the necessary resources, funding, etc. This is analogous to expanding a business when it is most profitable. Ask most employers in Canada (and US for the matter) whether they'd take Ivey or DD. It's also interesting to note the number of kids from UW/Laurier that try to transfer every year.


BTW, where are placement reports for DD's? Nothing supports empty words than actual figures and at least Ivey has the resources to publish them.



Both brought up good points. LXY, for the longest time I said hey, DD gives you opportunities for iBank and I shouldn't need to worry about that and worry to get the best education possible for the most versatility - "Substance over Prestige" I would say at the time.

It was argued before however, that Ivey could potentially have way more potential - I'd be getting the same degree Financial Modelling (Which is Stats and Actsci, basically what you'd be doing in Loo Math ofc not as hard) w/ Ivey (WAY higher tier than Laurier BBA).

The uniqueness was something held very important to my heart at the time - honestly IMO it really doesn't matter how many DDs come out or not but just the fact that you'd be in a special program of 60 (& Laurier's 40-50) would make anyone feel a little special. I've talked to recruiters - sure big5s love DDs but many of the jobs you hear are for BO/MO (Back office middle office) jobs. I went around emailing upper years in Double Degree Club and program admins and found myself asking about banking opportunities every time - for some reason I kept trying to justify going to DD because I could still get IBD ... Anyways, the president of DDC told me it was possible, in her year there were like 4 kids who made it in a Canadian/European Bank S&T, and a couple more kids who got TD/BMO investment banking. Ofc it's possible but at the end of the day Ivey is a target - in a field like investment banking, you just can't beat that.

Regarding the academic atmosphere, university is what you make it. I'm certainly way more attracted to the Western social scene. The fact that I almost chose Waterloo proves I don't even mind the crazy amounts of Asian Males (Well, I am :P ) but I definitely felt I'd be sacrificing a lot on that end at Waterloo.

Last comment about your post - You wrote about trying other things and I mentioned versatility - but WHAT ELSE can you do in DD !?!? The main things that they would have an advantage for would be in insurance/risk/actuarial science/stats etc. - All of the more math oriented ... that list also includes better S&T and really quantitative finance opportunities. I think I let my marks in high school math distort my own reality on my mathematic potential. I had insane high marks but I think most of it was a product of my hard work because I was never really good until my senior math courses where the mark mattered.


& Mentro, good points for the most part. One thing I would add is that only a percentage of all the Ivey grads want Finance in the first place. I feel a lot of them just took Ivey over places like Schulich and Queens cause of the party scene and they're rich enough anyways to afford it. But yeah Ivey is the most prestigious business undergrad program hands down and being able to get a dual degree with Western's Financial Modelling (Or something maybe a little less technical) gives you way more options than DD IMHO.

As someone almost 99.9 committed to DD at one point and who literally worshiped Waterloo (Stayed a week at my Friend's Rez to check it out, went to lectures and stuff), it was tough to convince myself that Western may have been the better choice. In the end though, I think I'm better off.

*Edit: I am very interested in discussing this with you LXY, partly to justify my reasonings and to hear yours. And no Mentro, it really isn't about convincing others or winning an argument xD




Props to you for doing all that research... can't say I knew what I wanted back in grade 12. You're bound to choose what's right for you.

One point I'd like to mention - even though Ivey has 500 kids, I know personally how tight each "section" is. The program is unique that you stick with the same 75 kids the whole year doing cases/reports/projects EVERYDAY. Plus, they need to justify the 20k tuition by giving you guys the best possible experience... or else, who'd rave about the program next time?
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
Hey Mentro, I'm guessing you're transferring in for HBA1 as a non-AEO? Do you mind sharing your experiences and reasonings etc.?

Edit: PM if you prefer!
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of LXY LXY
Good points Mentro. I'm too lazy to push the "quote" button.

However I'd like just to clarify a few things.

In your note, you quoted my use of "top 10." In my message, I specified "at ivey," so you may have just misread it. My mistake, I meant to say top 10%(so like 50 kids right now).

2. In terms of the diverse career options I was mentioning, I meant that having both a math and business degree means that you can pursue any career in one, the other, or both! As immaculatedx has mentioned, there is the idea of insurance and actuarial. You can also pursue your CA from the laurier side. Of course, if you're into marketing and the more business-y career paths, maybe you shouldn't pursue DD. No it does not "pins you as a quant person off the bat," quite simply cause you have 2 degrees.

I was not aware that immaculatedx, you didn't really enjoy math as well as I thought people entering this program would. From my original perspective, I thought that maybe you were open to an environment with a large math presence? Of course, if you're just looking for a business education with a slight mathematical edge, Ivey is the way to go. To each his(or her) own. However, mathematical potential is something earned, not an innate skill.

3. My understanding of supply and demand is as such. Since there is a greater supply of HBAs, employers may want diversity. When you show up at a job interview, you'll be the only DD amongst 10 HBAs. Although some of the HBAs will likely be hired, you won't be looked at as one of the pack, but rather a unique individual. Although there is a good chance that Ivey can expand to more than 500 kids, it really is quite unprecedented(but I still think they have a good chance) that the quality remains the same. Think about it, is it really possible to teach the same leadership essentials to 1000 kids as 500 kids? In my opinion that 40% senior management stat that they have now will be hindered if they expand.


Other personal reasons of mine include:

- the ability to not choose a major(s) in either degree until the 4th year(in case I hate a certain co-op job(s))
-the ability to apply to grad school if I ever choose to do so. I hear that Ivey students are curved with the median at or just below 80. It seems that not many get over 85, and a good GPA would be essential for grad school.
-co-op, self-explanatory.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@immaculatedx wrote
Hey Mentro, I'm guessing you're transferring in for HBA1 as a non-AEO? Do you mind sharing your experiences and reasonings etc.?

Edit: PM if you prefer!



Inbox is full.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@mentro wrote

@immaculatedx wrote
Hey Mentro, I'm guessing you're transferring in for HBA1 as a non-AEO? Do you mind sharing your experiences and reasonings etc.?

Edit: PM if you prefer!



Inbox is full.



Fixed and btw, Thanks.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@LXY wrote
Good points Mentro. I'm too lazy to push the "quote" button.

However I'd like just to clarify a few things.

In your note, you quoted my use of "top 10." In my message, I specified "at ivey," so you may have just misread it. My mistake, I meant to say top 10%(so like 50 kids right now).

2. In terms of the diverse career options I was mentioning, I meant that having both a math and business degree means that you can pursue any career in one, the other, or both! As immaculatedx has mentioned, there is the idea of insurance and actuarial. You can also pursue your CA from the laurier side. Of course, if you're into marketing and the more business-y career paths, maybe you shouldn't pursue DD. No it does not "pins you as a quant person off the bat," quite simply cause you have 2 degrees.

I was not aware that immaculatedx, you didn't really enjoy math as well as I thought people entering this program would. From my original perspective, I thought that maybe you were open to an environment with a large math presence? Of course, if you're just looking for a business education with a slight mathematical edge, Ivey is the way to go. To each his(or her) own. However, mathematical potential is something earned, not an innate skill.

3. My understanding of supply and demand is as such. Since there is a greater supply of HBAs, employers may want diversity. When you show up at a job interview, you'll be the only DD amongst 10 HBAs. Although some of the HBAs will likely be hired, you won't be looked at as one of the pack, but rather a unique individual. Although there is a good chance that Ivey can expand to more than 500 kids, it really is quite unprecedented(but I still think they have a good chance) that the quality remains the same. Think about it, is it really possible to teach the same leadership essentials to 1000 kids as 500 kids? In my opinion that 40% senior management stat that they have now will be hindered if they expand.


Other personal reasons of mine include:

- the ability to not choose a major(s) in either degree until the 4th year(in case I hate a certain co-op job(s))
-the ability to apply to grad school if I ever choose to do so. I hear that Ivey students are curved with the median at or just below 80. It seems that not many get over 85, and a good GPA would be essential for grad school.
-co-op, self-explanatory.




I wouldn't say I didn't enjoy Math - I think you have to enjoy something to excel at it. Calculus and Finance were definitely my two favourite subjects in High School. I think I really didn't want to go into the actuarial science/insurance field so I lost a lot of interest in DD when I fully realized that >>>>50% of the students will choose that - it seems DD is really good for that (Obviously so, math quant skills with business knowledge). For higher order finance, Laurier simply cannot compete. I'm definitely open for a quantitative career the those kind of jobs in Wall Street usually are super high level quant stuff that require PHDs and etc. Ofc there's S&T, the jury's still out on which school is better for that imo.

I haven't researched about grad school but I do know DDs have an amazing advantage for it because of their unique experience. I have a hard time believing that a motivated Ivey student wouldn't be able to land a top notch grad school position - again it's the most prestigious business school in Canada.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of apark17 apark17

@immaculatedx wrote

@mentro wrote

@immaculatedx wrote
Hey Mentro, I'm guessing you're transferring in for HBA1 as a non-AEO? Do you mind sharing your experiences and reasonings etc.?

Edit: PM if you prefer!



Inbox is full.



Fixed and btw, Thanks.



hey mentro can i get this answer too?
i might consider transferring in to HBA
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of mentro mentro

@LXY wrote
Good points Mentro. I'm too lazy to push the "quote" button.

However I'd like just to clarify a few things.

In your note, you quoted my use of "top 10." In my message, I specified "at ivey," so you may have just misread it. My mistake, I meant to say top 10%(so like 50 kids right now).

2. In terms of the diverse career options I was mentioning, I meant that having both a math and business degree means that you can pursue any career in one, the other, or both! As immaculatedx has mentioned, there is the idea of insurance and actuarial. You can also pursue your CA from the laurier side. Of course, if you're into marketing and the more business-y career paths, maybe you shouldn't pursue DD. No it does not "pins you as a quant person off the bat," quite simply cause you have 2 degrees.

I was not aware that immaculatedx, you didn't really enjoy math as well as I thought people entering this program would. From my original perspective, I thought that maybe you were open to an environment with a large math presence? Of course, if you're just looking for a business education with a slight mathematical edge, Ivey is the way to go. To each his(or her) own. However, mathematical potential is something earned, not an innate skill.

3. My understanding of supply and demand is as such. Since there is a greater supply of HBAs, employers may want diversity. When you show up at a job interview, you'll be the only DD amongst 10 HBAs. Although some of the HBAs will likely be hired, you won't be looked at as one of the pack, but rather a unique individual. Although there is a good chance that Ivey can expand to more than 500 kids, it really is quite unprecedented(but I still think they have a good chance) that the quality remains the same. Think about it, is it really possible to teach the same leadership essentials to 1000 kids as 500 kids? In my opinion that 40% senior management stat that they have now will be hindered if they expand.


Other personal reasons of mine include:

- the ability to not choose a major(s) in either degree until the 4th year(in case I hate a certain co-op job(s))
-the ability to apply to grad school if I ever choose to do so. I hear that Ivey students are curved with the median at or just below 80. It seems that not many get over 85, and a good GPA would be essential for grad school.
-co-op, self-explanatory.




Fair views.

I still disagree with your understanding of supply and demand. The kids that get into HBA are highly selected through not ONE, but TWO filters. They get 90's + ECs in highschool AND 80's in university. How are they not equal if not better than kids who get in DD just based on high school marks that are known for unequal inflation? That proves nothing in terms of quality except that they can study off books and regurgitate information.

How can you statistically claim having 50 DD's must mean each 1/50 is better? I understand if you test the graduates after 4 years, the DD's have more math knowledge and I've agreed that actuarial/statistics positions are better for them. Business wise, case-method trains superior bankers/consultants/marketers/entrepreneurs etc. because it makes you THINK and make decisions everyday.

Finally, as someone with experience in the recruiting process, employers do NOT care if they hire more Rotman, Schulich, DD or Ivey grads. In fact, because of Ivey's long history, many employers are Ivey grads (once again,ie finance) and look to recruit Ivey students exclusively. You may stand out as someone with 2 undergraduate degrees initially, but the importance of that diminishes with every job you get as experience > majors.

But yeah, go for it, it's what you do with the degree that matters.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
While the big program vs small program is a valid statement in many ways you have to think realistically.

Now this is exaggerating but if you came out of a new hypothetical math/business double degree from Guelph, would that really mean you'd be getting more banking jobs than a kid from Ivey? of course in this case it's different, but for a program that doesn't give you any true advantage in ibd and etc., why would you be better off being one of the 50 graduates vs. one Ivey's graduates.

If you're unsure or just want to test waters everywhere before, DD is an amazing program that gives you lots of options. I do believe in a "substance" education in things like math,engineering, etc. I think that most people should have something they're leaning towards - in my case banking, that you can focus on and still get a solid background in the "substance" area. Keep in mind you're getting a full 2nd degree if you choose to stay 5 years at Western.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of FunnyBone FunnyBone
Immaculated: Is there any reason that you chose financial modeling or something else, such as economics? You can still achieve a dual degree, so I was wondering what drew you to Financial Modeling.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@FunnyBone wrote
Immaculated: Is there any reason that you chose financial modeling or something else, such as economics? You can still achieve a dual degree, so I was wondering what drew you to Financial Modeling.



Financial Modelling gives you quantitative skills. I felt Economics and BMOS were way too soft. I would have done engineering but really not into that stuff.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of FunnyBone FunnyBone
Do you feel that those quantitative skills would give you a bigger benefit than having a higher average from economics?
I also heard that financial modeling gets difficult in the second year - are you worried about keeping up an 80 average?
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@FunnyBone wrote
Do you feel that those quantitative skills would give you a bigger benefit than having a higher average from economics?
I also heard that financial modeling gets difficult in the second year - are you worried about keeping up an 80 average?



Uncertainty is scary but from what I hear, Western isn't too hard and I think I'll be alright. I could always switch if I find my marks are too low.

Planning to dual degree in Econ and HBA is a little unnecessary imo - what are you staying back for? Your Economics degree doesn't mean or do much for you at all - this is just Imo.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of LXY LXY

@mentro wrote

@LXY wrote
Good points Mentro. I'm too lazy to push the "quote" button.

However I'd like just to clarify a few things.

In your note, you quoted my use of "top 10." In my message, I specified "at ivey," so you may have just misread it. My mistake, I meant to say top 10%(so like 50 kids right now).

2. In terms of the diverse career options I was mentioning, I meant that having both a math and business degree means that you can pursue any career in one, the other, or both! As immaculatedx has mentioned, there is the idea of insurance and actuarial. You can also pursue your CA from the laurier side. Of course, if you're into marketing and the more business-y career paths, maybe you shouldn't pursue DD. No it does not "pins you as a quant person off the bat," quite simply cause you have 2 degrees.

I was not aware that immaculatedx, you didn't really enjoy math as well as I thought people entering this program would. From my original perspective, I thought that maybe you were open to an environment with a large math presence? Of course, if you're just looking for a business education with a slight mathematical edge, Ivey is the way to go. To each his(or her) own. However, mathematical potential is something earned, not an innate skill.

3. My understanding of supply and demand is as such. Since there is a greater supply of HBAs, employers may want diversity. When you show up at a job interview, you'll be the only DD amongst 10 HBAs. Although some of the HBAs will likely be hired, you won't be looked at as one of the pack, but rather a unique individual. Although there is a good chance that Ivey can expand to more than 500 kids, it really is quite unprecedented(but I still think they have a good chance) that the quality remains the same. Think about it, is it really possible to teach the same leadership essentials to 1000 kids as 500 kids? In my opinion that 40% senior management stat that they have now will be hindered if they expand.


Other personal reasons of mine include:

- the ability to not choose a major(s) in either degree until the 4th year(in case I hate a certain co-op job(s))
-the ability to apply to grad school if I ever choose to do so. I hear that Ivey students are curved with the median at or just below 80. It seems that not many get over 85, and a good GPA would be essential for grad school.
-co-op, self-explanatory.




Fair views.

I still disagree with your understanding of supply and demand. The kids that get into HBA are highly selected through not ONE, but TWO filters. They get 90's + ECs in highschool AND 80's in university. How are they not equal if not better than kids who get in DD just based on high school marks that are known for unequal inflation? That proves nothing in terms of quality except that they can study off books and regurgitate information.

How can you statistically claim having 50 DD's must mean each 1/50 is better? I understand if you test the graduates after 4 years, the DD's have more math knowledge and I've agreed that actuarial/statistics positions are better for them. Business wise, case-method trains superior bankers/consultants/marketers/entrepreneurs etc. because it makes you THINK and make decisions everyday.

Finally, as someone with experience in the recruiting process, employers do NOT care if they hire more Rotman, Schulich, DD or Ivey grads. In fact, because of Ivey's long history, many employers are Ivey grads (once again,ie finance) and look to recruit Ivey students exclusively. You may stand out as someone with 2 undergraduate degrees initially, but the importance of that diminishes with every job you get as experience > majors.

But yeah, go for it, it's what you do with the degree that matters.



Although I do agree with you in that Ivey has two filters, just over half of DDs actually graduate with two degrees. I'd say that generally it is more difficult, so that itself can be the second filter. Also, the AIF lets you demonstrate your humanity outside of school(possible 12 points to your average), which most DDs need to get in. Although it is not as much as the 50% that Ivey weighs the rest of your life, it is still something.

I agree that the case method is something that DD lacks. I'll try to join case competitions and stuff. This is definitely a DD negative.

Although Ivey has a distinct history of excellence that is unquestionable, I feel like Waterloo is on the rise. Waterloo's math/business presence hasn't really been around for too long(DD turns 10 this year I believe), so naturally the industry is less aware. However, if waterloo can send kids to wall street(albeit in more MO/BO positions), I feel like in 5 more years(when I graduate), it will be much stronger(perhaps still not as strong as ivey). Just as others have mentioned that a hard-working Ivey grad can get into grad school, I feel like a hard-working Waterloo grad can get into IBD=).

Finally, I like Co-op. lol
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx

@LXY wrote

@mentro wrote

@LXY wrote
Good points Mentro. I'm too lazy to push the "quote" button.

However I'd like just to clarify a few things.

In your note, you quoted my use of "top 10." In my message, I specified "at ivey," so you may have just misread it. My mistake, I meant to say top 10%(so like 50 kids right now).

2. In terms of the diverse career options I was mentioning, I meant that having both a math and business degree means that you can pursue any career in one, the other, or both! As immaculatedx has mentioned, there is the idea of insurance and actuarial. You can also pursue your CA from the laurier side. Of course, if you're into marketing and the more business-y career paths, maybe you shouldn't pursue DD. No it does not "pins you as a quant person off the bat," quite simply cause you have 2 degrees.

I was not aware that immaculatedx, you didn't really enjoy math as well as I thought people entering this program would. From my original perspective, I thought that maybe you were open to an environment with a large math presence? Of course, if you're just looking for a business education with a slight mathematical edge, Ivey is the way to go. To each his(or her) own. However, mathematical potential is something earned, not an innate skill.

3. My understanding of supply and demand is as such. Since there is a greater supply of HBAs, employers may want diversity. When you show up at a job interview, you'll be the only DD amongst 10 HBAs. Although some of the HBAs will likely be hired, you won't be looked at as one of the pack, but rather a unique individual. Although there is a good chance that Ivey can expand to more than 500 kids, it really is quite unprecedented(but I still think they have a good chance) that the quality remains the same. Think about it, is it really possible to teach the same leadership essentials to 1000 kids as 500 kids? In my opinion that 40% senior management stat that they have now will be hindered if they expand.


Other personal reasons of mine include:

- the ability to not choose a major(s) in either degree until the 4th year(in case I hate a certain co-op job(s))
-the ability to apply to grad school if I ever choose to do so. I hear that Ivey students are curved with the median at or just below 80. It seems that not many get over 85, and a good GPA would be essential for grad school.
-co-op, self-explanatory.




Fair views.

I still disagree with your understanding of supply and demand. The kids that get into HBA are highly selected through not ONE, but TWO filters. They get 90's + ECs in highschool AND 80's in university. How are they not equal if not better than kids who get in DD just based on high school marks that are known for unequal inflation? That proves nothing in terms of quality except that they can study off books and regurgitate information.

How can you statistically claim having 50 DD's must mean each 1/50 is better? I understand if you test the graduates after 4 years, the DD's have more math knowledge and I've agreed that actuarial/statistics positions are better for them. Business wise, case-method trains superior bankers/consultants/marketers/entrepreneurs etc. because it makes you THINK and make decisions everyday.

Finally, as someone with experience in the recruiting process, employers do NOT care if they hire more Rotman, Schulich, DD or Ivey grads. In fact, because of Ivey's long history, many employers are Ivey grads (once again,ie finance) and look to recruit Ivey students exclusively. You may stand out as someone with 2 undergraduate degrees initially, but the importance of that diminishes with every job you get as experience > majors.

But yeah, go for it, it's what you do with the degree that matters.



Although I do agree with you in that Ivey has two filters, just over half of DDs actually graduate with two degrees. I'd say that generally it is more difficult, so that itself can be the second filter. Also, the AIF lets you demonstrate your humanity outside of school(possible 12 points to your average), which most DDs need to get in. Although it is not as much as the 50% that Ivey weighs the rest of your life, it is still something.

I agree that the case method is something that DD lacks. I'll try to join case competitions and stuff. This is definitely a DD negative.

Although Ivey has a distinct history of excellence that is unquestionable, I feel like Waterloo is on the rise. Waterloo's math/business presence hasn't really been around for too long(DD turns 10 this year I believe), so naturally the industry is less aware. However, if waterloo can send kids to wall street(albeit in more MO/BO positions), I feel like in 5 more years(when I graduate), it will be much stronger(perhaps still not as strong as ivey). Just as others have mentioned that a hard-working Ivey grad can get into grad school, I feel like a hard-working Waterloo grad can get into IBD=).

Finally, I like Co-op. lol



As I said, you can definitely get IBD as a waterloo grad and if you are looking for more options, DD makes a lot of sense. It's still a legit possibility that I go.
Was this helpful? Yes 0

 
A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
Bump.
Was this helpful? Yes 0