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Options for a 2nd year Sci student who has ~2.0 GPA

A photo of aimango aimango
Hmm, dunno if this should go here, but yeah. A good friend of mine basically had very little motivation in 2nd year (his current year) and did really bad. He declared his major and all, but he cant really move on because he failed a bio just recently. He wants to do optometry, but at this point, his marks are not even at the minimum requirements.

Are there students out there with this same problem? If so, what did you do? Chem is not his thing, too, but he declared a Physiology major which is Bio-heavy. I want to tell him to transfer schools and start over maybe (OR change majors), but would grad schools be able to still look @ his old school marks?

Thanks
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A photo of inthemaking inthemaking
Off the top of my head his best option is:

Work hard for the remainder of undergrad and hope that optometry looks kindly upon his upward trend of marks (a lot of professional/grad schools do). Retake any pre-req courses that he did badly in (though he'll have to check with the school, some grad/professional schools don't allow repeated courses and will still take your 1st mark). If he's not allowed to retake courses, then find other courses that will fulfill the pre-req (ie. through distance ed at other unis, or other courses at the uni) and ace those. Ace the OAT. Have some stellar LORs (if they require any) and volunteering experience/ECs.

Transferring schools really won't help since either way, professional/grad schools will request your full university transcript and they will see those marks regardless. It would just be a waste of money/time. If he's really struggling in his major though, then by all means change it.
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A photo of aimango aimango

@inthemaking wrote
Off the top of my head his best option is:

Work his ass off for the remainder of undergrad and hope that optometry looks kindly upon his upward trend of marks (a lot of professional/grad schools do). Retake any pre-req courses that he did badly in (though he'll have to check with the school, some grad/professional schools don't allow repeated courses and will still take your 1st mark). If he's not allowed to retake courses, then find other courses that will fulfill the pre-req (ie. through distance ed at other unis, or other courses at the uni) and ace those. Ace the OAT. Have some stellar LORs (if they require any) and volunteering experience/ECs.

Transferring schools really won't help since either way, professional/grad schools will request your full university transcript and they will see those marks regardless. It would just be a waste of money/time. If he's really struggling in his major though, then by all means change it.



Yeah a lot of grad schools take the avg for repeated courses though apparently. Whats an LOR?

Sigh, the problems that sci students have to go through xD
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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX
I'm pretty sure if he transfers to another school and starts fresh, his previous marks won't count. But to be honest, he'll have to work really hard and make sure he doesn't get anything below a C+ to even cut it for almost any grad school in ontario. Good luck.
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A photo of inthemaking inthemaking

@aimango wrote

@inthemaking wrote
Off the top of my head his best option is:

Work his ass off for the remainder of undergrad and hope that optometry looks kindly upon his upward trend of marks (a lot of professional/grad schools do). Retake any pre-req courses that he did badly in (though he'll have to check with the school, some grad/professional schools don't allow repeated courses and will still take your 1st mark). If he's not allowed to retake courses, then find other courses that will fulfill the pre-req (ie. through distance ed at other unis, or other courses at the uni) and ace those. Ace the OAT. Have some stellar LORs (if they require any) and volunteering experience/ECs.

Transferring schools really won't help since either way, professional/grad schools will request your full university transcript and they will see those marks regardless. It would just be a waste of money/time. If he's really struggling in his major though, then by all means change it.



Yeah a lot of grad schools take the avg for repeated courses though apparently. Whats an LOR?

Sigh, the problems that sci students have to go through xD



LOR = letter of recommendation
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A photo of aimango aimango
apparently in the states, all your credits transfer over, and there is a 5 year rule where you cant study for more than 5 years or youll get kicked out. and they count your record at other universities? wtf is that true? Cant believe US system is that flawed..

but anyways im encouraging him to switch majors, but the issue i stated above is a big deal apparently.

and here in canada i thought you had all your life to get a degree... sucks to be in US
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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX

@aimango wrote
apparently in the states, all your credits transfer over, and there is a 5 year rule where you cant study for more than 5 years or youll get kicked out. and they count your record at other universities? wtf is that true? Cant believe US system is that flawed..

but anyways im encouraging him to switch majors, but the issue i stated above is a big deal apparently.

and here in canada i thought you had all your life to get a degree... sucks to be in US



That's weird, i doubt it's true. Regardless, any premed student would want to be in the US over Canada because about 50% of premeds get into medical school there, Canada it's less than 10%. And for Canadians who think they can simply transfer there...unless your a Canadian resident, you don't get the same cutoffs as them...so it really sucks, unless you got US citizenship...
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A photo of mynameismattgotmlgo mynameismattgotmlgo
If he can pull up his marks to a level that is higher than competitive for optometry (i.e. at least a 3.7), I'd say the optometry schools and other professional schools will look past his poor performance in first and second year.

And, yes, he could probably just start anew. Apply to another university as if he were still just a high school student and then, obviously, not show any professional schools he applies to his transcript from his current university. If the schools ask what he did for those two years, he could just reply with something along the lines of, "well, I traveled and worked." There's no way they'd know any different.
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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns
Ok clarification, It's actually 25% in Canada and around 45% in the US. The reason it's higher in the US is not only more seats, but you also look at the general difficulty of getting a 3.7+ in a science program, which is much harder to do in the states. Also (I lived in the states for 8 years), there is a general attitude that only the wealthy 4.0 gpa students can apply in the US, where in Canada there are a lot more "regular" students applying. You also have to look at the insane amount of prerequisites you need even to apply to a US school. The norm is 1 year physics with labs, 2 years bio with labs, 1 year chem with labs, 1 year orgo with labs, 1 year math, and sometimes biochem, english, and stats are included. Make sure you do your research before making such a large assumption.


@FiresinX wrote

@aimango wrote
apparently in the states, all your credits transfer over, and there is a 5 year rule where you cant study for more than 5 years or youll get kicked out. and they count your record at other universities? wtf is that true? Cant believe US system is that flawed..

but anyways im encouraging him to switch majors, but the issue i stated above is a big deal apparently.

and here in canada i thought you had all your life to get a degree... sucks to be in US



That's weird, i doubt it's true. Regardless, any premed student would want to be in the US over Canada because about 50% of premeds get into medical school there, Canada it's less than 10%. And for Canadians who think they can simply transfer there...unless your a Canadian resident, you don't get the same cutoffs as them...so it really sucks, unless you got US citizenship...


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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX
^When I said less than 10%...I'm not randomly pulling up numbers from random furoms. I'm looking at the number of seats to applicant ratio (all ranging from 2%-8%) + knowledge from multiple medical school seminars that i've personally attended + Stats from OMSAS. Acceptance rate into Canadian medical schools are no where near 25% bud. Most schools have 2000-4000 students applying for 50-200 seats at each school. You can say there are multiple medical schools, but the same students don't apply to every single medical school in Canada...to apply to every single medical school in Ontario alone is very complicated to meet the requirements for each school. And even if they apply to the 3-4 schools each year, the stats are still slightly above 10%. The acceptance to get into Canadian medical schools around 10%, and for US it's around 50%. If you still say it's 25%, i would like to know where your getting this info from.
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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns
http://www.afmc.ca/pdf/2010AdBk.pdf
There you go, page 5 and 6. Shows the breakdown of overall admissions and by province. Bounces between 25-30 percent for 2002-2007 (all they currently have available). My question to you is where did YOU get your information? You probably interpreted wrong, it's okay everyone makes mistakes. Just get your facts strait before making posts like that on forums that could potentially influence someones choice. For example I'm from Nova Scotia, and have a 38% chance of getting into JUST Dalhousie, not even including all the other schools I can apply too. Med school isn't as hard to get into as everyone says. My uncle works at Dalhousie, and apparently the average grade is around an A- (3.8) upon acceptance, not some crazy 4.0 number which is not true for any med school. The norm is 3.85-3.9. You can find average GPA info here http://www.oxfordseminars.ca/MCAT/mcat_profiles.php.




@FiresinX wrote

@Chandlerowns wrote
Ok clarification, It's actually 25% in Canada and around 45% in the US. The reason it's higher in the US is not only more seats, but you also look at the general difficulty of getting a 3.7+ in a science program, which is much harder to do in the states. Also (I lived in the states for 8 years), there is a general attitude that only the wealthy 4.0 gpa students can apply in the US, where in Canada there are a lot more "regular" students applying. You also have to look at the insane amount of prerequisites you need even to apply to a US school. The norm is 1 year physics with labs, 2 years bio with labs, 1 year chem with labs, 1 year orgo with labs, 1 year math, and sometimes biochem, english, and stats are included. Make sure you do your research before making such a large assumption.


@FiresinX wrote

@aimango wrote
apparently in the states, all your credits transfer over, and there is a 5 year rule where you cant study for more than 5 years or youll get kicked out. and they count your record at other universities? wtf is that true? Cant believe US system is that flawed..

but anyways im encouraging him to switch majors, but the issue i stated above is a big deal apparently.

and here in canada i thought you had all your life to get a degree... sucks to be in US



That's weird, i doubt it's true. Regardless, any premed student would want to be in the US over Canada because about 50% of premeds get into medical school there, Canada it's less than 10%. And for Canadians who think they can simply transfer there...unless your a Canadian resident, you don't get the same cutoffs as them...so it really sucks, unless you got US citizenship...






When I said less than 10%...I'm not randomly pulling up numbers from random furoms. I'm looking at the number of seats to applicant ratio (all ranging from 2%-8%) + knowledge from multiple medical school seminars that i've personally attended + Stats from OMSAS. Acceptance rate into Canadian medical schools are no where near 25% bud. Most schools have 2000-4000 students applying for 50-200 seats at each school. You can say there are multiple medical schools, but the same students don't apply to every single medical school in Canada...to apply to every single medical school in Ontario alone is very complicated to meet the requirements for each school. And even if they apply to the 3-4 schools each year, the stats are still slightly above 10%. The acceptance to get into Canadian medical schools around 10%, and for US it's around 50%. If you still say it's 25%, i would like to know where your getting this info from.



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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX
^ I haven't seen these stats before. But despite this, the acceptance is still below 25%. The 25% includes out of country & more importantly, each school outside Ontario prefers students from their own province, meaning most of the acceptances include the individal schools being bias and accepting their own provincial applicants which doesn't include most of us...so if you live in Ontario, chances of you getting in is less than 10% to any school alone....your stats just proves this. Like you said, you live in Nova scotia, you have 38% chance of getting in, but that's only Nova Scotia...and if you were to apply to a single school outside Nova Scotia that percentage diminishes by alot...UofT 9%, Northern Med 3%, Mac 4.9%, Queens 7.9%...Oh and these stats are dropping every year.


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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns

Success Rates Overall: 28.3 % 26.0 % 26.5 % 28.6 % 25.0 %
Last time I checked each one of those numbers is over 25. And don't try to change what you said. You said in Canada you have less then 10% chance to get into med school, and 50% in the US. If you want to do it by school you will have around 10% in Canada and US. Each US medical school does not have 50% admissions, they are around the same as Canada. And yes, Ontario has slightly lower acceptance in Canada (around 21%). That is still not near less then 10%, and we were talking about all of Canada. I'm sure I could find a random state in US like Illinois and find they have a 19% acceptance if I wanted. I don't understand why you can't admit you are wrong. Don't try to change what you said before. Those are facts from the legit medical society of Canada. Not random seminar you said you went too.
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A photo of mynameismattgotmlgo mynameismattgotmlgo
And just so you know, the Ontario row in the chart on page 6 of the PDF Chandlerowns posted refers to people from Ontario. In other words, 19.7% of applicants from Ontario were accepted to a Canadian medical school in the 2006/2007.
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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX

@Chandlerowns wrote

Success Rates Overall: 28.3 % 26.0 % 26.5 % 28.6 % 25.0 %
Last time I checked each one of those numbers is over 25. And don't try to change what you said. You said in Canada you have less then 10% chance to get into med school, and 50% in the US. If you want to do it by school you will have around 10% in Canada and US. Each US medical school does not have 50% admissions, they are around the same as Canada. And yes, Ontario has slightly lower acceptance in Canada (around 21%). That is still not near less then 10%, and we were talking about all of Canada. I'm sure I could find a random state in US like Illinois and find they have a 19% acceptance if I wanted. I don't understand why you can't admit you are wrong. Don't try to change what you said before. Those are facts from the legit medical society of Canada. Not random seminar you said you went too.



I never changed what I said, I agree with you it is 25% for ALL Canadian applicant to seat ratio. But you sti;l don't understand my point, i'm not trying to disprove that 25% is incorrect, i'm just saying it varies depending on where you live. You live in Ontario, you still don't have 25% of getting accepted somewhere even if 25% of the whole nation's applicants get accepted somewhere. Same thing with any other province, when YOU apply outside Nova Scotia you won't get a benefit from other provinces...ex. If you live in Alberta you would require a mid 3.5 GPA...as for out of province it's in the 3.8's (These might not even be correct numbers, but i;m trying to get my point across)... You have to look at an individual point of view which is where an individual's acceptance rate varies from school to school and is less than that number.

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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns

I feel as if you are reading like 1 sentence of my posts. Although I've said this a couple of times I found you the stats from Ontario and they have ranged from 19-22%. You have now said multiple times on multiple topics to people who actually want to know their chances that it's less then 10%. For who? Where? And don't give me the 'per school' argument, because you were talking about the chance of a Canadian student vs an American student getting into med school and said 50 for US and less then 10 for Canada which just isn't true. For the GPA aspect you also said in another forum that most people get into med school with a 4.0 GPA. That would mean they got A+ in every single class they every took for 4 years. Again, that isn't true at all, as I said previously with my GPA stats. The point of this is to stop being one of those kids who posts bs information all over forms that might potentially stop someone from following a certain career path. If you genuinely want to help someone learn your facts and then post, otherwise you're being less help then not posting at all.




@FiresinX wrote

@Chandlerowns wrote

Success Rates Overall: 28.3 % 26.0 % 26.5 % 28.6 % 25.0 %
Last time I checked each one of those numbers is over 25. And don't try to change what you said. You said in Canada you have less then 10% chance to get into med school, and 50% in the US. If you want to do it by school you will have around 10% in Canada and US. Each US medical school does not have 50% admissions, they are around the same as Canada. And yes, Ontario has slightly lower acceptance in Canada (around 21%). That is still not near less then 10%, and we were talking about all of Canada. I'm sure I could find a random state in US like Illinois and find they have a 19% acceptance if I wanted. I don't understand why you can't admit you are wrong. Don't try to change what you said before. Those are facts from the legit medical society of Canada. Not random seminar you said you went too.



I never changed what I said, I agree with you it is 25% for ALL Canadian applicant to seat ratio. But you sti;l don't understand my point, i'm not trying to disprove that 25% is incorrect, i'm just saying it varies depending on where you live. You live in Ontario, you still don't have 25% of getting accepted somewhere even if 25% of the whole nation's applicants get accepted somewhere. Same thing with any other province, when YOU apply outside Nova Scotia you won't get a benefit from other provinces...ex. If you live in Alberta you would require a mid 3.5 GPA...as for out of province it's in the 3.8's (These might not even be correct numbers, but i;m trying to get my point across)... You have to look at an individual point of view which is where an individual's acceptance rate varies from school to school and is less than that number.




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A photo of FiresinX FiresinX
Where did I say you need a 4.0 to get into medical school? Also why are you walking around my point, in my opinion you are misleading other into thinking medical school isn't hard to get into...25% of applicants get in? Look at the whole picture bud.

So your telling me not to give a 'per school arguement'....? Are you crazy? When someone applies to medical school, they are applying to each individual school not a whole country...Also, like i said I agree with you that it's not 10% for Cannadians...but it's not 25% either cause that assumes you are applying to every SINGLE applicant to seat ratio in the country...meaning your applying to every school, which most people don't have the requirements to do so. Your misleading everyone who came into this furom into thinking medical school is a breeze and that out of 4 people who apply...1 will get in = not true...look at the whole picture kid.

Here, I'll state it one more time...DON't LOOK AT the 25% stats because Ex. Alberta Med accepts 85% of it's provincial applicants to its medical school (153 seats are reserved), meaning the 25% applicant to seat ratio is bias since most people are outside alberta and will never get any of those seats...thus brushing off 25% just from 1 school. Do the same for the other schools outside Ontario and your soon left way below 25%. If you still fail to understand this, then your just being stupid. It would be a smart move on your part to stop arguing cause i already said the stats are, but are bias and therefore in an individual's perspective, it's way less than 25%.

As for original 50% applicant thing i said about the US, I take that back because the same concept works as Canada, most schools reserve seats for their own province thus excluding the majority. Oh and btw, may I ask are you even doing your undergrad right now? or are you just another high school student whose looking at stats and not the whole picture.


@Chandlerowns wrote

I feel as if you are reading like 1 sentence of my posts. Although I've said this a couple of times I found you the stats from Ontario and they have ranged from 19-22%. You have now said multiple times on multiple topics to people who actually want to know their chances that it's less then 10%. For who? Where? And don't give me the 'per school' argument, because you were talking about the chance of a Canadian student vs an American student getting into med school and said 50 for US and less then 10 for Canada which just isn't true. For the GPA aspect you also said in another forum that most people get into med school with a 4.0 GPA. That would mean they got A+ in every single class they every took for 4 years. Again, that isn't true at all, as I said previously with my GPA stats. The point of this is to stop being one of those kids who posts bs information all over forms that might potentially stop someone from following a certain career path. If you genuinely want to help someone learn your facts and then post, otherwise you're being less help then not posting at all.



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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns
"Millions of people want to become a doctor as a child, how many become one? It takes motivation, dedication, passion to practice medicine and to get into medical school is the biggest challenge...You probably know this by i'm just going to remind you: cramming for biology is not going to work in university so it's not an option...you'll just end up failing, so don't depend on that. Also, important things to know before you even consider medicine in Canada, how many people get accepted to medical school? The answer is less than 10% (in ontario, it's close to 5%) and most of these guys have close to 4.0 GPA + EC.

All in all... go to business and don't play around with your future. If anything, you can apply to medical school through a business degree...and to be honest, if you think wasting your 20's to become a doctor or if your counting how many years it takes to become one, medicine isn't for you. Medicine is about time and patience, and hard work above all...and getting into medical school is the hardest part"

That's a quote from you from the medicine and business thread. You also say that 5% of people from Ontario get in, that's way off the actual numbers which I posted. Again the numbers I posted are basically your chances of getting into a med school in Canada, assuming you apply to the average amount of schools which is about 3-4. And btw, there are 4 or 5 med schools in Canada where you don't need any prerequisites to apply. These being McMaster, Dalhousie, Northern, and either Queens or Western I forget which. So basically someone with an English degree and no science course could apply to the 'norm' amount of med schools shown in the 25% average for Canada. I don't know how to make it more obvious what you said was wrong. I guess the next step is actually copying and pasting stats from the sites instead of posting a link.








@FiresinX wrote
Where did I say you need a 4.0 to get into medical school? Also why are you walking around my point, in my opinion you are misleading other into thinking medical school isn't hard to get into...25% of applicants get in? Look at the whole picture bud.

So your telling me not to give a 'per school arguement'....? Are you crazy? When someone applies to medical school, they are applying to each individual school not a whole country...Also, like i said I agree with you that it's not 10% for Cannadians...but it's not 25% either cause that assumes you are applying to every SINGLE applicant to seat ratio in the country...meaning your applying to every school, which most people don't have the requirements to do so. Your misleading everyone who came into this furom into thinking medical school is a breeze and that out of 4 people who apply...1 will get in = not true...look at the whole picture kid.

Here, I'll state it one more time...DON't LOOK AT the 25% stats because Ex. Alberta Med accepts 85% of it's provincial applicants to its medical school (153 seats are reserved), meaning the 25% applicant to seat ratio is bias since most people are outside alberta and will never get any of those seats...thus brushing off 25% just from 1 school. Do the same for the other schools outside Ontario and your soon left way below 25%. If you still fail to understand this, then your just being stupid. It would be a smart move on your part to stop arguing cause i already said the stats are, but are bias and therefore in an individual's perspective, it's way less than 25%.

As for original 50% applicant thing i said about the US, I take that back because the same concept works as Canada, most schools reserve seats for their own province thus excluding the majority. Oh and btw, may I ask are you even doing your undergrad right now? or are you just another high school student whose looking at stats and not the whole picture.


@Chandlerowns wrote

I feel as if you are reading like 1 sentence of my posts. Although I've said this a couple of times I found you the stats from Ontario and they have ranged from 19-22%. You have now said multiple times on multiple topics to people who actually want to know their chances that it's less then 10%. For who? Where? And don't give me the 'per school' argument, because you were talking about the chance of a Canadian student vs an American student getting into med school and said 50 for US and less then 10 for Canada which just isn't true. For the GPA aspect you also said in another forum that most people get into med school with a 4.0 GPA. That would mean they got A+ in every single class they every took for 4 years. Again, that isn't true at all, as I said previously with my GPA stats. The point of this is to stop being one of those kids who posts bs information all over forms that might potentially stop someone from following a certain career path. If you genuinely want to help someone learn your facts and then post, otherwise you're being less help then not posting at all.






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A photo of Chandlerowns Chandlerowns
Lmao oh I forgot to reply to 'look at the whole picture'. So you are saying that looking at individual med schools is the 'whole picture'? Where as I would think looking at the OVERALL acceptance would be the 'whole picture'. When again, no matter where you are from in Canada your chance is over 20%. INCLUDING ONTARIO. Look at the link I posted if you still don't believe me.
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A photo of mynameismattgotmlgo mynameismattgotmlgo
Wow. This is all because FiresinX is misunderstanding what the numbers mean. 25% of Canadians who apply to at least one Canadian medical school are accepted in that year.

Yes, Ontario doesn't give priority to its own students like other provinces do, but you can see how that affects an Ontario student's chances of getting into med school by looking at the Ontario row of the chart. If you do so, you will see a "19.7%" for 2006/2007. What does that mean? That means that 19.7% of people from Ontario who applied to at least one Canadian med school received at least one acceptance to a Canadian med school. So, as you can see, Ontario not giving priority to its own students like other provinces do results in Ontario students having the least likelihood of getting accepted to a Canadian med school (19.7% vs 33.9% for Alberta, for example).
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