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Poverty in Africa

A photo of BrownianMotion BrownianMotion
I have decided to cease my pursuit of becoming a financial engineer, and instead devote my life to helping improve the quality of life for poor black children in some third world African country to be determined at a later date.

It is clear to me, and anyone with more than a couple functioning brain cells, that Africans are inherently innovative, industrious, and resourceful people. One might ask, “why then, do the majority of Africans live in mud huts, have no access to fresh water or sanitation?” or “why is their technology thousands of years behind that of the rest of the world?” The answer to this is simple: the greed of the West, and their incessant need to own and control everything. Colonialization and imperialism in Africa by Europe left Africa having to try to play “catch up” with the rest of the world. In the absence of colonialization, Africa would unquestionably have been a powerhouse in the world. If you cannot see this, it’s probably because you’re an ignorant right-wing Nazi.

As a Caucasian, I feel extremely guilty about the actions of my people. As a result, my philanthropic expenditures will be astronomical so as to appease my guilty conscience. My charitable work will establish my moral status and my overall superiority to the rest of you. It will no doubt make me a better human being.

Now, here is Toto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azVqekQBK8g
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41 replies
 
A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
Yeah, not biting at this.
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A photo of fruitpunch9 fruitpunch9
Congratulations on your epiphany!
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A photo of mynameismattgotmlgo mynameismattgotmlgo
Pretty hard to be thinking about physics and philosophy when you live in an arid landscape where survival is always questionable.
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A photo of chatmike chatmike
(nasally voice)Sure, and the speed of light isn't a fixed constant in a vacuum! Hah *snort* <adjusts glasses>
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A photo of NumberOne NumberOne

@BrownianMotion wrote
One might ask, “why then, do the majority of Africans live in mud huts, have no access to fresh water or sanitation?” or “why is their technology thousands of years behind that of the rest of the world?” The answer to this is simple



I really don't know if you're serious or not but I really hope you aren't.

The only thing worse than an ignorant individual who lives in his/her own Western bubble, is an ignorant individual who think he/she is superior than those living in poverty.You have an elitist belief that you "owe" the Africans and that you must save us from our own corrupted governments, impoverish states and dried-up farms.

Firstly, the majority of Africans do not live in mud huts. Actually, Africa is the continent with the largest urbanization population growth rate in the world. But regardless, a majority of the population do live in RURAL areas (different from mud huts which indicate no running water, electricity, sanitation etc so stop implying otherwise)

Secondly, technology isn't thousands of years behind the rest of the world, genius. It's been approx 2 thousand years since Christ died for crying out loud. Would you be shocked if I told you there are wheels, lightbulbs, radio, cars, cellphones and *gasp* and even the INTERNET works in Africa.

Lastly, the answer isn't simple. And don't try and mask your stupidity and ignorance with a belief that the solution to Africa is simplistic or two-dimensional.

If your original post was sarcastic, I find it insulting. If it wasn't sarcastic, I still find it insulting.

My parents were both born and raised in East Africa and if you think for even a second that they lived like cavemen or that they needed you to "save" them, then you are horribly misguided.

I think you're elitist, pretentious, uneducated and oblivious to reality. Stick to being a financial engineer.
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A photo of Yatesb Yatesb

@NumberOne wrote

@BrownianMotion wrote
One might ask, “why then, do the majority of Africans live in mud huts, have no access to fresh water or sanitation?” or “why is their technology thousands of years behind that of the rest of the world?” The answer to this is simple



I really don't know if you're serious or not but I really hope you aren't.

The only thing worse than an ignorant individual who lives in his/her own Western bubble, is an ignorant individual who think he/she is superior than those living in poverty.You have an elitist belief that you "owe" the Africans and that you must save us from our own corrupted governments, impoverish states and dried-up farms.

Firstly, the majority of Africans do not live in mud huts. Actually, Africa is the continent with the largest urbanization population growth rate in the world. But regardless, a majority of the population do live in RURAL areas (different from mud huts which indicate no running water, electricity, sanitation etc so stop implying otherwise)

Secondly, technology isn't thousands of years behind the rest of the world, genius. It's been approx 2 thousand years since Christ died for crying out loud. Would you be shocked if I told you there are wheels, lightbulbs, radio, cars, cellphones and *gasp* and even the INTERNET works in Africa.

Lastly, the answer isn't simple. And don't try and mask your stupidity and ignorance with a belief that the solution to Africa is simplistic or two-dimensional.

If your original post was sarcastic, I find it insulting. If it wasn't sarcastic, I still find it insulting.

My parents were both born and raised in East Africa and if you think for even a second that they lived like cavemen or that they needed you to "save" them, then you are horribly misguided.

I think you're elitist, pretentious, uneducated and oblivious to reality. Stick to being a financial engineer.



BrownianMotion has been served. No need for this thread to continue.
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A photo of mynameismattgotmlgo mynameismattgotmlgo
To be honest, I don't think NumberOne's counterargument would count towards BrownianMotion being "served". I think it is very obvious that the OP is just trying to get a rise out of people by stating things that he knows are not totally true and that some people will take offense to. When you filter all of that out, then you're left with the OP's argument: that "the greed of the West, and their incessant need to own and control everything" is the reason why Africa is not "a powerhouse in the world." Being "served" would require a counterargument that focused on this argument and not so much focused on the BS BrownianMotion knowingly stated. While I don't think he stated his argument well, BrownianMotion does make a logically sound argument as to why Africa has not been as industrious as other parts of the world. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is logically sound.

And by stating that BrownianMotion is "elitist, pretentious, uneducated and oblivious to reality," NumberOne is really just stooping to BrownianMotion's level.
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A photo of littleroom littleroom
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").
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A photo of LRooke LRooke
The Africans do not need Western 'aid'. They need investment and industrial development. Africa can become the new People's Republic.
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A photo of NumberOne NumberOne

@littleroom wrote
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").



Agreed x1000000

I don't understand why the Vatican and its Ministers believe that public morality is more important than public mortality. Not to mention the fact that a large portion of Africans are regular and practicing Christians who will actually listen to whatever the Pope spews out at them.
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A photo of g93 g93

@BrownianMotion wrote
Now, here is Toto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azVqekQBK8g


This part was good.
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A photo of ktel ktel

@g93 wrote

@BrownianMotion wrote
Now, here is Toto:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azVqekQBK8g


This part was good.



+1
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A photo of zefyre zefyre

@NumberOne wrote

@BrownianMotion wrote
One might ask, “why then, do the majority of Africans live in mud huts, have no access to fresh water or sanitation?” or “why is their technology thousands of years behind that of the rest of the world?” The answer to this is simple



I really don't know if you're serious or not but I really hope you aren't.

The only thing worse than an ignorant individual who lives in his/her own Western bubble, is an ignorant individual who think he/she is superior than those living in poverty.You have an elitist belief that you "owe" the Africans and that you must save us from our own corrupted governments, impoverish states and dried-up farms.

Firstly, the majority of Africans do not live in mud huts. Actually, Africa is the continent with the largest urbanization population growth rate in the world. But regardless, a majority of the population do live in RURAL areas (different from mud huts which indicate no running water, electricity, sanitation etc so stop implying otherwise)

Secondly, technology isn't thousands of years behind the rest of the world, genius. It's been approx 2 thousand years since Christ died for crying out loud. Would you be shocked if I told you there are wheels, lightbulbs, radio, cars, cellphones and *gasp* and even the INTERNET works in Africa.

Lastly, the answer isn't simple. And don't try and mask your stupidity and ignorance with a belief that the solution to Africa is simplistic or two-dimensional.

If your original post was sarcastic, I find it insulting. If it wasn't sarcastic, I still find it insulting.

My parents were both born and raised in East Africa and if you think for even a second that they lived like cavemen or that they needed you to "save" them, then you are horribly misguided.

I think you're elitist, pretentious, uneducated and oblivious to reality. Stick to being a financial engineer.



+1 They're people just like us.
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A photo of prmly prmly

@littleroom wrote
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").



yeah totally

the Africans are starving and living in huts made of poop because of the pope

rah rah rah let's all hate Christianity we're all such rebels towards our horrible society and upbringing hxc
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A photo of littleroom littleroom

@prmly wrote

@littleroom wrote
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").



yeah totally

the Africans are starving and living in huts made of poop because of the pope

rah rah rah let's all hate Christianity we're all such rebels towards our horrible society and upbringing hxc


There are an estimated 158 million Catholics in Africa. Imagine you were Catholic. The Pope, according to Catholic belief, is infallible when speaking about dogma. In all other cases, his word is still taken very seriously. And what he says is echoed by Catholic Churches and institutions globally, many of which exist in Africa. Now, if your religious leader tells you that condoms won't help the problem, make it worse, and that the best solution is to stop having sex, you will take it to heart.

Your poor response only reveals the weakness in your argument, not mine. I never said that all their problems are because of the Vatican (by the way, they don't live in "huts made of poop"), but only that AIDS is made worse because of what they say. It is irresponsible, incorrect, and immoral what the Vatican is preaching in Africa in relation to AIDS.

My motives for saying this do not arise from some teenage angst to rebel against "our horrible society and upbringing." In fact, I wasn't raised Christian. And I care about Africans and AIDS. And I appreciate my upbringing: it's what has led me to denounce immorality and unreason when I see it; it's you who needs moral and intellectual growth.
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A photo of BrownianMotion BrownianMotion

@NumberOne wrote

@BrownianMotion wrote
One might ask, “why then, do the majority of Africans live in mud huts, have no access to fresh water or sanitation?” or “why is their technology thousands of years behind that of the rest of the world?” The answer to this is simple



I really don't know if you're serious or not but I really hope you aren't.

The only thing worse than an ignorant individual who lives in his/her own Western bubble, is an ignorant individual who think he/she is superior than those living in poverty.You have an elitist belief that you "owe" the Africans and that you must save us from our own corrupted governments, impoverish states and dried-up farms.

Firstly, the majority of Africans do not live in mud huts. Actually, Africa is the continent with the largest urbanization population growth rate in the world. But regardless, a majority of the population do live in RURAL areas (different from mud huts which indicate no running water, electricity, sanitation etc so stop implying otherwise)

Secondly, technology isn't thousands of years behind the rest of the world, genius. It's been approx 2 thousand years since Christ died for crying out loud. Would you be shocked if I told you there are wheels, lightbulbs, radio, cars, cellphones and *gasp* and even the INTERNET works in Africa.

Lastly, the answer isn't simple. And don't try and mask your stupidity and ignorance with a belief that the solution to Africa is simplistic or two-dimensional.

If your original post was sarcastic, I find it insulting. If it wasn't sarcastic, I still find it insulting.

My parents were both born and raised in East Africa and if you think for even a second that they lived like cavemen or that they needed you to "save" them, then you are horribly misguided.

I think you're elitist, pretentious, uneducated and oblivious to reality. Stick to being a financial engineer.



LOL

I'm baffled that the satirical nature of my post wasn't evident to you. I can picture you typing away and just seething with anger while posting that response. I had a good laugh.

I honestly could not care any less about living conditions in Africa nor would I ever give aid to people who are simply incapable of progressing regardless of the amount of exogenous aid given to them. It just doesn't keep me up at night.

As I don't take any of your arguments seriously, I’m not going to play by the rulebook of reason and sophisticated discourse if my opponents are really just engaged in some running gag. I'd rather just make light of it all.

The inspiration of this thread is this girl I work with who, on a daily basis, comes up with a new segment of the population that she thinks is owed monetary aid. We started a pool, akin to a hockey fantasy pool, where we predict which segment of the population she will obsess over next. The funny thing is that this girl is a receptionist with an arts degree (meaning no future, low earning potential, etc) so she clearly won't have the means to give aid to all of these people she wants to save. Hence, she supports the use of tax dollars directed at all of these causes she deems require attention. The sad thing is that there are many people out there like this broad.

What's worse is that she doesn't wear tight clothing while spewing her inarticulate tripe. :(
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A photo of ktel ktel
I think BrownianMotion is the new Stringer
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A photo of BrownianMotion BrownianMotion

@ktel wrote
I think BrownianMotion is the new Stringer



Do you play rugby?
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^ Yes
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A photo of ktel ktel
Yes, the number of stereotypes that could apply to me based on those two things alone is ridiculous.

EDIT: I now look silly, as BrownianMotion or a moderator has deleted the previous post...
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A photo of prmly prmly

@littleroom wrote

@prmly wrote

@littleroom wrote
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").



yeah totally

the Africans are starving and living in huts made of poop because of the pope

rah rah rah let's all hate Christianity we're all such rebels towards our horrible society and upbringing hxc


There are an estimated 158 million Catholics in Africa. Imagine you were Catholic. The Pope, according to Catholic belief, is infallible when speaking about dogma. In all other cases, his word is still taken very seriously. And what he says is echoed by Catholic Churches and institutions globally, many of which exist in Africa. Now, if your religious leader tells you that condoms won't help the problem, make it worse, and that the best solution is to stop having sex, you will take it to heart.

Your poor response only reveals the weakness in your argument, not mine. I never said that all their problems are because of the Vatican (by the way, they don't live in "huts made of poop"), but only that AIDS is made worse because of what they say. It is irresponsible, incorrect, and immoral what the Vatican is preaching in Africa in relation to AIDS.

My motives for saying this do not arise from some teenage angst to rebel against "our horrible society and upbringing." In fact, I wasn't raised Christian. And I care about Africans and AIDS. And I appreciate my upbringing: it's what has led me to denounce immorality and unreason when I see it; it's you who needs moral and intellectual growth.



AIDs is going to spread whether some guy in a hat says "NO CONDOMS FOR THE CATHOLICS" or not. The tone in your argument clearly shows you have unnatural, despicable hate towards Christianity and organized religion and I feel very sorry for you. It must be hard carrying around such a heavy heart full of hatred for people who just want to make things better in the world.

Religious groups in Africa have made a world of difference throughout the past hundred years. Many of the hospitals, clinics, and orphanages are run by nuns and Protestant ministries and for you to spit on them as if they bring nothing but problems is really disgusting.

The Pope also said last year that condom use is justifiable at times, especially with male prostitutes. Regardless, Catholics aren't like Mormons in their devoutness to the faith -- I'm pretty sure Catholics account for the biggest religious group to get abortions worldwide. The Pope is loved and is seen as an important religious figurehead, but he is not God and should not be treated as such.

Oh god, and you're completely wrong when it comes to Papal infallibility. Advising Africans to stay abstinent if they have AIDs instead of using condoms was NOT an infallible statement. Infallible statements have actually only been said twice in recent times and that was concerning the matters of Immaculate Conception and Assumption. Please don't throw around the word 'infallibility' if you don't know how to properly apply it. It just makes you look ignorant.
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A photo of g93 g93

@littleroom wrote

@prmly wrote

@littleroom wrote
What many miss about Africa's dire situation is how much worse it's made by the Vatican with their idiotic pronouncements about AIDS ("AIDS might be bad, but condoms are worse" and "abstinence will solve the problem").



yeah totally

the Africans are starving and living in huts made of poop because of the pope

rah rah rah let's all hate Christianity we're all such rebels towards our horrible society and upbringing hxc


There are an estimated 158 million Catholics in Africa. Imagine you were Catholic. The Pope, according to Catholic belief, is infallible when speaking about dogma. In all other cases, his word is still taken very seriously. And what he says is echoed by Catholic Churches and institutions globally, many of which exist in Africa. Now, if your religious leader tells you that condoms won't help the problem, make it worse, and that the best solution is to stop having sex, you will take it to heart.

Your poor response only reveals the weakness in your argument, not mine. I never said that all their problems are because of the Vatican (by the way, they don't live in "huts made of poop"), but only that AIDS is made worse because of what they say. It is irresponsible, incorrect, and immoral what the Vatican is preaching in Africa in relation to AIDS.

My motives for saying this do not arise from some teenage angst to rebel against "our horrible society and upbringing." In fact, I wasn't raised Christian. And I care about Africans and AIDS. And I appreciate my upbringing: it's what has led me to denounce immorality and unreason when I see it; it's you who needs moral and intellectual growth.


Who is to say what is moral? I can guarantee you your opinions will differ from mine. Same goes for everyone.

And technically abstinence is the only method of birth control that is 100% effective (actual abstinence of course).
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A photo of littleroom littleroom

@prmly wrote
AIDs is going to spread whether some guy in a hat says "NO CONDOMS FOR THE CATHOLICS" or not.


Just because it'll spread anyway does not mean we shouldn't try to stop it. Do you even read things before you type them?

"A guy in a hat" is clearly not how they view him. He is their religious leader.


@prmly wrote
The tone in your argument clearly shows you have unnatural, despicable hate towards Christianity and organized religion and I feel very sorry for you. It must be hard carrying around such a heavy heart full of hatred for people who just want to make things better in the world.


"Unnatural, despicable hate"? In fact, I don't. I don't need your pity. How about you argue my points instead of engaging in ad hominem attacks?


@prmly wrote
Religious groups in Africa have made a world of difference throughout the past hundred years. Many of the hospitals, clinics, and orphanages are run by nuns and Protestant ministries and for you to spit on them as if they bring nothing but problems is really disgusting.


That's great, but spreading the falsehood that condoms don't work, and that abstinence is the only true method to stopping AIDs is disastrous given the context. In fact, Hamas has many charities and schools set up to help Palestinian kids. That's great too, but it doesn't stop me (and it shouldn't stop you) from criticizing their Islamic fundamentalism and terrorism. I would much rather support secular organizations like Amnesty International and Doctors Without Borders that don't tie in their charity work with theological nonsense.


@prmly wrote
The Pope also said last year that condom use is justifiable at times, especially with male prostitutes. Regardless, Catholics aren't like Mormons in their devoutness to the faith -- I'm pretty sure Catholics account for the biggest religious group to get abortions worldwide. The Pope is loved and is seen as an important religious figurehead, but he is not God and should not be treated as such.


Yes, I'm aware he said that. In fact, this is what he said exactly: "There may be a basis in the case of some individuals, as perhaps when a male prostitute uses a condom, where this can be a first step in the direction of a moralization, a first assumption of responsibility." He is saying that it may serve as baby steps towards solving the real problem (and not that he says "moralization". He clearly doesn't like the idea of condoms). I'm sorry, that's not enough. He didn't even recommend condoms for the common population, where instead he said, "On the contrary, it [condoms] increases the problem [of AIDs in Africa]." The fact that Catholics don't follow his word to the letter, or that they go against Catholic doctrine, or that the Pope is loved, has nothing to do with my argument. I said his statements were irresponsible, and that in Africa, with that many Catholics, he should not be saying what he said. Why is this so hard for you to accept?


@prmly wrote
Oh god, and you're completely wrong when it comes to Papal infallibility. Advising Africans to stay abstinent if they have AIDs instead of using condoms was NOT an infallible statement. Infallible statements have actually only been said twice in recent times and that was concerning the matters of Immaculate Conception and Assumption. Please don't throw around the word 'infallibility' if you don't know how to properly apply it. It just makes you look ignorant.


I said that when speaking on dogma, he is believed to be infallible. And then I stressed, right after, that in other cases (like this one) his word is still taken very seriously and promulgated by Catholic institutions worldwide. So no, I'm in fact fully aware of the nuances of Papal infallibility. I'm curious as to how you don't even find the idea that a human being can be infallible some of time doesn't trouble you in the first place.

Quotes source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/40289256/ns/world_news-europe/t/pope-condoms-stop-aids-may-be-ok-some-cases/
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