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"Is Law School A Losing Game" NYTimes Article

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here

Opinions?

e: I am someone planning on going into law.
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Meh. It's a risk, as is taking on any sort of debt for education.
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A photo of Rourachnitchai Rourachnitchai
Well, this is disheartening.
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A photo of kaitx kaitx
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. For one thing, this article is American, and law school is much cheaper in Canada as our education is heavily subsidized by the government to decrease the effects of student debt. Also, after you graduate, you become an articling student for a year before you can go to the Bar. As an articling student you will make about 80K that year. After you have achieved your Bar and become a lawyer, that first year you should be making about $130K.
So I really don't think you'll have much to worry about in terms of paying off loans and such. My suggestion to you would be to make meaningful connections now and network network network! Because when you do go hunting for a job at a law firm, that's where many get stuck as they do not know someone within. Good luck to you.
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@kaitx wrote
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. For one thing, this article is American, and law school is much cheaper in Canada as our education is heavily subsidized by the government to decrease the effects of student debt. Also, after you graduate, you become an articling student for a year before you can go to the Bar. As an articling student you will make about 80K that year. After you have achieved your Bar and become a lawyer, that first year you should be making about $130K.
So I really don't think you'll have much to worry about in terms of paying off loans and such. My suggestion to you would be to make meaningful connections now and network network network! Because when you do go hunting for a job at a law firm, that's where many get stuck as they do not know someone within. Good luck to you.



The thing is, recession did hit the Canadian Legal Market too, which resulted in a stiff reduction of Elite firm hiring in most Canadian cities.
Today, most firms are still hesitant in pushing hiring to the "old time's" level...
In some points, you're right, the U.S. Legal market is condemned, mainly because of the ABA still accredidating new Law Schools knowing the market is crowded with Lawyers.
The CBA is starting to have suspicious thoughts, a new Canadian Law School is opening soon, our market does not need a new Law School, but they still wanted to accredidate it.

So i'll sum things up for you kids wanting to be Lawyers in Canada:

1)If you have good grades during Law School(Hard), you will stand good job prospects,
but nothing is guaranteed, many Top students applying in Top firms do not get a call back too.

2)If you have Medium grades(Most do so), you will still have a good shot on anything outside BigLaw, but you encounter the risk of getting OCI-Pwned if you want BigLaw.

3)If you have crap grades(All of the morons wanting BigLaw since UG and didn't do any other research end up like this), chances are you will get OCI-Pwned and you will probably end up with no jobs at all, BigLaw or not, UofT/McGill or not.

The market is saturated everywhere here, competition is stiff for all positions.

Remember that holding an LL.B./M.B.A. will place you above any Business Grad/Law Student for any entry level Business Job/Legal Job.

If you want job stability, forget Law.
If you just want money, might as well go for Business.
If you want to "help" others, become a Social Worker.

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@kaitx wrote
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. For one thing, this article is American, and law school is much cheaper in Canada as our education is heavily subsidized by the government to decrease the effects of student debt. Also, after you graduate, you become an articling student for a year before you can go to the Bar. As an articling student you will make about 80K that year. After you have achieved your Bar and become a lawyer, that first year you should be making about $130K.
So I really don't think you'll have much to worry about in terms of paying off loans and such. My suggestion to you would be to make meaningful connections now and network network network! Because when you do go hunting for a job at a law firm, that's where many get stuck as they do not know someone within. Good luck to you.


yeah it's important to take into account the differences between law school here and there for sure.

the law student:law school ratio is probably a lot more different in the US.

@noval, a stable law job can be found outside of big law too. there's always the possibility of opening your own practice, isn't there?
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Must remember that the article is American, where they pay comparatively much higher for law school tuition. Additionally, the job markets are very different there. In Canada, if you go to any law school, you will be looked upon fondly by firms assuming you do well academically. In the US, you could be at the top of your class in a State College, and it means nothing compared to going to Yale or Harvard.
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Getting an MBA/JD (most schools in canada don't give out LLB anymore), will not give you an advantage in every field. Some law firms will care that you have your JD and did well, the MBA is irrelevant. It's nice to have no doubt, but it's like saying having an Engineer's Degree and a Music degree will help you get an Engineering job.
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@Kintore wrote
Getting an MBA/JD (most schools in canada don't give out LLB anymore), will not give you an advantage in every field. Some law firms will care that you have your JD and did well, the MBA is irrelevant. It's nice to have no doubt, but it's like saying having an Engineer's Degree and a Music degree will help you get an Engineering job.




The thing is, Investment Banks, Consulting Firms, and BigLaw Firms look at JD/MBA grads above and beyond traditionnal grads.

Firms know that they will be forced to pay you competitive salaries, so they look at JD/MBA grads as a better investment.

That said, the JD/MBA opens a lot of doors and it will immensely help you if you plan on trying out for Investment Banking or Consulting.

Remember that JD/MBA grads have more knowledge and flexibility than any Law or Business grad, which explains why they are popular everywhere and why you see much more JD/MBA grads succeeding in their career.
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@jsaroya wrote

@kaitx wrote
I really don't think you have anything to worry about. For one thing, this article is American, and law school is much cheaper in Canada as our education is heavily subsidized by the government to decrease the effects of student debt. Also, after you graduate, you become an articling student for a year before you can go to the Bar. As an articling student you will make about 80K that year. After you have achieved your Bar and become a lawyer, that first year you should be making about $130K.
So I really don't think you'll have much to worry about in terms of paying off loans and such. My suggestion to you would be to make meaningful connections now and network network network! Because when you do go hunting for a job at a law firm, that's where many get stuck as they do not know someone within. Good luck to you.


yeah it's important to take into account the differences between law school here and there for sure.

the law student:law school ratio is probably a lot more different in the US.

@noval, a stable law job can be found outside of big law too. there's always the possibility of opening your own practice, isn't there?



Opening your own practice is impossible unless you got strong network(Aka you worked at Biglaw, made tons of client friends and left to go solo).

Otherwise owning a practice in big cities is really hard.

You can become a Crown Counsel as well, shortage in this area, especially in Quebec.
Or you can re-purpose your Law career and become a Banker or Consultant, that will require strong come back to studies unless you got an MBA as well.
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A photo of peaches8 peaches8
If you want to become a lawyer, don't let this, the money or other rumours hold you back. If it's what you want to do in life, go for it. Otherwise you'll never be happy. Truth is, if you really want something, nothing will get in your way and in the end, you realize that you have a strong motivation to get where your going.

Earning a degree is like an investment. Make the right investment, and it'll always pay off.
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