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Richard Ivey vs Queens - Unltimate Faceoff - To be or not to be?

A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam
Richard Ivey vs Queens - Unltimate Faceoff - To be or not to be?

List your pros and cons for each program please :) !



I can`t seem to nail down pros and cons that will win me over the other :compress:
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A photo of SKing16 SKing16
I was in the same boat, but I ended up choosing Richard Ivey.

Queen's Commerce is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it just comes down to personal preference and atmosphere. I know I'd like the atmosphere at Western/Ivey better than Queens, and I'd fit in more in Western due to its diversity compared to Queens.

Ivey's also had higher salaries for its graduates than Queen's, not a significant difference, but it is a plus for me. I'm also interested in pursuing an MBA with Ivey as well, so choosing Ivey would also better prepare me for that as well.

I've done all the research, and Ivey is definitely a bigger name in the US than Queens. After reading topics from numerous US Sites, although Canadian b-schools aren't really target schools for the top US Firms, Ivey places good in US and recruiters are impressed with Ivey students and how they perform, probably due to the case study method.

The 2 + 2 thing was a big problem for me, but in the end I'm going to do BMOS the first two years and I know I can get an 80% in that, if I can't, then I don't deserve going to Ivey or pursuing business. To me, the only option in my mind is getting to Ivey that third year, I will not think of anything else otherwise.. its kind of a do or die situation for me to stay focused. The only option I have is getting to Ivey, there's no other option and I will not accept failure, simple as.

Their both great programs to be honest, and you can't go wrong with either one. It just comes down to personal preference and which University you will like better. Western is also closer to come which is another plus.
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A photo of mxfire mxfire
I'm trying to make the same choice. Currently leaning more towards Ivey because:
1) Their seemingly larger international reputation
2) Western is more multicultural
3) I know more people going to Western

Both schools are great, and I'm sure you can't go wrong with either.
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@SKing16 wrote
I'm also interested in pursuing an MBA with Ivey as well, so choosing Ivey would also better prepare me for that as well.



Nit picking but - try not to go to the same school for your MBA as you went to for your BBA. Go to a different school and try to expand your horizons. Try to find a school that meets your interests as well. Ivey is great for IB, but if you eventually fall in love with something else, say healthcare consulting a different school would probably be better.

I recently spoke with someone who had recently graduated from Ivey with her BBA. Originally she was set on going into finance. She did fine in her courses but didnt love it. She took an HR course, and just absolutely fell in love with it. Its a long way away, and you can't simply say "I will go into investment banking, make lots of money, drive a Benz, have a model wife, with a penthouse apartment in New York."
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A photo of NumberOne NumberOne
I'm not accepting either but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd go with Queen's.
You start business from day one and there is a lot more flexibility in things like courses; at Ivey, your timetable for your 3rd and 4th years are going to be restricted in terms of flexibility because you're essentially packing four years worth of business into two. The whole "Ivey case study teaching" is a bunch of bs I think, all schools (especially Queen's) use case study based teachings and who really cares who wrote them?

But really, go to the school you like the best. Ivey and Queen's are both incredible schools and in the long-run, you can't go wrong with either.
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@NumberOne wrote
I'm not accepting either but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd go with Queen's.
You start business from day one and there is a lot more flexibility in things like courses; at Ivey, your timetable for your 3rd and 4th years are going to be restricted in terms of flexibility because you're essentially packing four years worth of business into two. The whole "Ivey case study teaching" is a bunch of bs I think, all schools (especially Queen's) use case study based teachings and who really cares who wrote them?

But really, go to the school you like the best. Ivey and Queen's are both incredible schools and in the long-run, you can't go wrong with either.



:( You betrayed me.

Just kidding.

I consider Ivey and Queen's both amazing business schools and it really comes down to whether you like the 2+2 program or dislike it.
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A photo of apark17 apark17
IMO this forum needs stickies........ BAD.

anyways im gonna chime in,

going for finance= ivey
anything else= QC

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A photo of fullforceRC fullforceRC
Personal bias: Queen's! :D

Ivey's rumoured reputation cannot beat Queen's solid fact of sending 5 3rd year students to NY to work for GS (according to their HS liaison). For those interested in specifically business, Queen's starts their business education in year 1. Even after all 4 years, Queen's has a relatively lower amount of arts/sci courses as their requirements, which means you're learning more rather than doing easier courses just for marks. The international exchange experience is also a pro; this gives you exposure to foreign markets which will definitely benefit you if you choose to leave Canada. IMO, rather than pursue a reputation rumoured by others, why not equip yourself with what you need to succeed in the foreign market? In that respect Queen's won me over with their solid program and opportunities.
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Queen's... for me at least
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A photo of dangles999 dangles999
I'm accepting Queens Commerce because I love the campus and the way it is integrated with Kingston (which is a great city). Don't get me wrong Western's campus is amazing and may be more scenic than Queens, however it is bigger, and its kind of disconnected from the city of London. When I visited Western it didn't seem like there was much stuff to do off campus.

I also love the fact that at QC your business education starts from day one, and there are no conditions like the 2+2 system at Western, where you have to maintain an 80% average in your first 2 years. The international exchange 3rd year was also a major factor that I found very enticing about Queens. It's just tha tight knit vibe feeling that I get from Queens every time I visit the campus that makes me love it.

Ivey is still a great school, and makes a great choice for many people
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
Obviously it depends on what your preferences are, but between the two I would choose Queen's Commerce. I'm deciding between QC and McGill right now actually.

My points will be overlapping with others, but my first reason is because I don't like Ivey's course structure. I want to be exposed to recruiting/networking opportunities and I will be more or so in line with at Queen's when I start, Western Econ won't get me any good summer jobs but at least at QC I have a chance.

International exchange is huge for me and I really want to go. At Ivey I will have to go 4th year 1st semester and I will be doing this at the expense of losing a fourth of my Ivey education. Also that's the year when you start looking for a job so I don't want to miss out. At Queen's and McGill I will already have this done by 3rd year!

I also want to start my business education from day one so I will be more useful to an employer at least by my second year summer. Realistically and hopefully I'll be able to get a real business related job. If I'm doing Econ at Western I will be working at McDonalds (exaggeration) but no really I won't be any use.

Lastly, just the fact that I worked hard in high school and I want my hard work to be rewarded by being at a reputable place. At Queen's and McGill once I am in, I'm in. At Western, I don't want to be in a okay program and still be in the risk of not getting into Ivey. There a couple of more points I have but yeah you get the point :)
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A photo of gnazarkin gnazarkin
I am also deciding between the two, but does anyone else think that the Ivey AEO was given to a lot of students this year, and they weren't as selective in their process as seen in previous years. I do know about the large increase in program size, but the large number of acceptances is making my decision even tougher.
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A photo of Jeffhe Jeffhe
Gnazarkin, first of all, I'm surprised that Schulich hasn't accepted you while both Ivey and Queen's has. What you said about AEO being given out to more people this year is probably true due their expansion, but I think they were just as selective with their applicants as previous years if not more. For example, I have a friend who was good enough to get into McMaster Health Sci, arguably the hardest undergraduate program to get into, and wasn't accepted to Ivey until the 3rd round of AEO offers. As for myself, my average is 93% and I have pretty good ECs (Model UN, DECA VP of Training, ICDC competitor, Peer Tutor, Student Council, Chess Club, and lots of volunteering) and I was only recently accepted. But let's just say that even if they were less selective with their applicants this year, it doesn't take away from the fact that the best and the brightest still go there. If you are good, you will be in the top 10% of your class and have no trouble finding success. Why should it matter that there is a slightly larger group of less capable kids, it would only serve to make you stand out. As well, neither does less selectivity take away from Ivey's amazing alumni network, the quality of education you receive there, or any of the other perks at Ivey.
The only program I have with the program is that it's expensive and I don't know if an undergraduate degree is really worth spending all that money for... But there can be no doubt that Ivey is, if not the best, one of the top business undergrad programs in Canada. Hope to see you there!

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A photo of ott93 ott93
Most people don't like it but I'm going to UWO with AEO status because I like the 2+2 structure. I think it's a super valuable and flexible opportunity to explore other interests before going into business.
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A photo of SKing16 SKing16
Yeah gnzarkin, I noted that as well, but it won't make a difference if you're in the top of your class.

By the way, Ivey is not only for finance, it's also good for consulting and other sectors too.

In all honesty, I value the opinions of recruiters and experienced men in the industry more so than University or high school student. And from what I've heard/read from them is that 90% of the time, they tell me Ivey is better.

The most important aspect of undergraduate business schools is their alumni base and network. That should always be one of your first priorities when deciding. Ivey, by far has the strongest alumni base internationally, and is much, much larger than Queen's. In Canada alone, Ivey has around 12,000 while Queens has 6,000. Worldwide Ivey has 20,000, don't know about Queen's but it's less for sure.

Secondly, wallstreetoasis.com was the one site that you can count of when ranking business schools. You don't get opinions from students, but from professional businessmen working in the finance/consulting/whatever industry, with a majority working in the US.

98% of the time, no word of a lie, most of them said Ivey was either significantly better than Queen's by a large margin, just better than Queen's, or on par. I've yet to see someone tell me Queen's is above Ivey. You can see for yourself if you don't believe me.

I did my own research and checked the execs/senior analysts/associates/etc. at various banks or firms (Canadian ones), and saw that they always contained at least one Ivey/Western graduate, but most of the times they had more Ivey/Western graduates than from any other school. However, I will say I also found one that had much more Queen's graduates, and that there was also a good amount of Queens graduates among the companies.
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A photo of mxfire mxfire

@gnazarkin wrote
I am also deciding between the two, but does anyone else think that the Ivey AEO was given to a lot of students this year, and they weren't as selective in their process as seen in previous years. I do know about the large increase in program size, but the large number of acceptances is making my decision even tougher.



That's one of the things that's keeping me from accepting Ivey in a heartbeat. I know so many people who have gotten their AEO, compared to 3 who I know personally that have received an offer from Queens.
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A photo of SKing16 SKing16
In all honesty, I think the increase of offers is to establish a greater international presence. I noticed that a lot more international students have been offered Ivey AEO, and mostly due to the expansion.

That means there's nothing to really worry about. Int'l students usually go work back in their home country due to language barriers or other reasons. It's a clever marketing scheme for Ivey, as they've wanted to increase their international reputation in Asia as well from what I've read and heard.

So don't be too alarmed. I think the number of Canadians get offered Ivey AEO is relatively the same, possibly a bit more. not a big difference though.
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A photo of GoBarca GoBarca

@SKing16 wrote

Secondly, wallstreetoasis.com was the one site that you can count of when ranking business schools. You don't get opinions from students, but from professional businessmen working in the finance/consulting/whatever industry, with a majority working in the US.

98% of the time, no word of a lie, most of them said Ivey was either significantly better than Queen's by a large margin, just better than Queen's, or on par. I've yet to see someone tell me Queen's is above Ivey. You can see for yourself if you don't believe me.




well its WALLSTREEToasis.com.. a lot of the ppl who go on that forum regularly work in the field of finance. AND in terms of finance, ivey is better. However, u cant judge a school merely base on how it performs in finance. if ppl are 100% sure that they want to do finance, ivey hands down; otherwise i would recommend queens. More importantly, just like what everyone has been saying, u dont get into ivey till 3rd yr and u start on day one at queens. At the end, it all comes down to personal preference .. reallly
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A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam

@SKing16 wrote
I was in the same boat, but I ended up choosing Richard Ivey.

Queen's Commerce is excellent, don't get me wrong, but it just comes down to personal preference and atmosphere. I know I'd like the atmosphere at Western/Ivey better than Queens, and I'd fit in more in Western due to its diversity compared to Queens.

Ivey's also had higher salaries for its graduates than Queen's, not a significant difference, but it is a plus for me. I'm also interested in pursuing an MBA with Ivey as well, so choosing Ivey would also better prepare me for that as well.

I've done all the research, and Ivey is definitely a bigger name in the US than Queens. After reading topics from numerous US Sites, although Canadian b-schools aren't really target schools for the top US Firms, Ivey places good in US and recruiters are impressed with Ivey students and how they perform, probably due to the case study method.

The 2 + 2 thing was a big problem for me, but in the end I'm going to do BMOS the first two years and I know I can get an 80% in that, if I can't, then I don't deserve going to Ivey or pursuing business. To me, the only option in my mind is getting to Ivey that third year, I will not think of anything else otherwise.. its kind of a do or die situation for me to stay focused. The only option I have is getting to Ivey, there's no other option and I will not accept failure, simple as.

Their both great programs to be honest, and you can't go wrong with either one. It just comes down to personal preference and which University you will like better. Western is also closer to come which is another plus.



What you said is true indeed. I think im swaying towards Purple and white too! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV_UvTzi9YE) Queens is just too expensive aswell. I think begining two years of BMOS with 6K tuition makes up for 21k tuition later on. Thanks alot for your insight :) ! I look forward to seeing you there bud ! (thats if i decide to go there =7 )
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@mxfire wrote
I'm trying to make the same choice. Currently leaning more towards Ivey because:
1) Their seemingly larger international reputation
2) Western is more multicultural
3) I know more people going to Western

Both schools are great, and I'm sure you can't go wrong with either.




You seem to have very similar points as I do. Another one i would like to add is that they are comparatively cheaper with the same if not better rep then queens.
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A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam

@ZFero wrote

@NumberOne wrote
I'm not accepting either but if I had to pick one over the other, I'd go with Queen's.
You start business from day one and there is a lot more flexibility in things like courses; at Ivey, your timetable for your 3rd and 4th years are going to be restricted in terms of flexibility because you're essentially packing four years worth of business into two. The whole "Ivey case study teaching" is a bunch of bs I think, all schools (especially Queen's) use case study based teachings and who really cares who wrote them?

But really, go to the school you like the best. Ivey and Queen's are both incredible schools and in the long-run, you can't go wrong with either.



:( You betrayed me.

Just kidding.

I consider Ivey and Queen's both amazing business schools and it really comes down to whether you like the 2+2 program or dislike it.




Looking foward to seeing you bud at westerN!
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A photo of mxfire mxfire

@ToiTeam wrote

@mxfire wrote
I'm trying to make the same choice. Currently leaning more towards Ivey because:
1) Their seemingly larger international reputation
2) Western is more multicultural
3) I know more people going to Western

Both schools are great, and I'm sure you can't go wrong with either.




You seem to have very similar points as I do. Another one i would like to add is that they are comparatively cheaper with the same if not better rep then queens.



Are they really? In terms of tuition I thought they were almost equal.
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A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam

@SKing16 wrote
Yeah gnzarkin, I noted that as well, but it won't make a difference if you're in the top of your class.

By the way, Ivey is not only for finance, it's also good for consulting and other sectors too.

In all honesty, I value the opinions of recruiters and experienced men in the industry more so than University or high school student. And from what I've heard/read from them is that 90% of the time, they tell me Ivey is better.

The most important aspect of undergraduate business schools is their alumni base and network. That should always be one of your first priorities when deciding. Ivey, by far has the strongest alumni base internationally, and is much, much larger than Queen's. In Canada alone, Ivey has around 12,000 while Queens has 6,000. Worldwide Ivey has 20,000, don't know about Queen's but it's less for sure.

Secondly, wallstreetoasis.com was the one site that you can count of when ranking business schools. You don't get opinions from students, but from professional businessmen working in the finance/consulting/whatever industry, with a majority working in the US.

98% of the time, no word of a lie, most of them said Ivey was either significantly better than Queen's by a large margin, just better than Queen's, or on par. I've yet to see someone tell me Queen's is above Ivey. You can see for yourself if you don't believe me.

I did my own research and checked the execs/senior analysts/associates/etc. at various banks or firms (Canadian ones), and saw that they always contained at least one Ivey/Western graduate, but most of the times they had more Ivey/Western graduates than from any other school. However, I will say I also found one that had much more Queen's graduates, and that there was also a good amount of Queens graduates among the companies.





Hey i completely agree with you and the points you have brought up. Love your writing.
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A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam

@SKing16 wrote
In all honesty, I think the increase of offers is to establish a greater international presence. I noticed that a lot more international students have been offered Ivey AEO, and mostly due to the expansion.

That means there's nothing to really worry about. Int'l students usually go work back in their home country due to language barriers or other reasons. It's a clever marketing scheme for Ivey, as they've wanted to increase their international reputation in Asia as well from what I've read and heard.

So don't be too alarmed. I think the number of Canadians get offered Ivey AEO is relatively the same, possibly a bit more. not a big difference though.



Wow, I never thought that way about the International students. Thanks for the valuable info.
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A photo of ToiTeam ToiTeam

@mxfire wrote

@ToiTeam wrote

@mxfire wrote
I'm trying to make the same choice. Currently leaning more towards Ivey because:
1) Their seemingly larger international reputation
2) Western is more multicultural
3) I know more people going to Western

Both schools are great, and I'm sure you can't go wrong with either.




You seem to have very similar points as I do. Another one i would like to add is that they are comparatively cheaper with the same if not better rep then queens.



Are they really? In terms of tuition I thought they were almost equal.




Yes they are almost equal,

Richard Ivey Queens
(Tuition Only) (Tuition Only)
6.2K + 6.2K + 21K + 21K = 54.4K 13.4 + 13.4 + 14+ 14 = 54.8K
(included ancillary, reg fees etc)

But i personally think that ivey charging you relatively less first two year gives you the margin and time to save up in those two years.
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A photo of GoBarca GoBarca

@ToiTeam wrote

@SKing16 wrote
In all honesty, I think the increase of offers is to establish a greater international presence. I noticed that a lot more international students have been offered Ivey AEO, and mostly due to the expansion.

That means there's nothing to really worry about. Int'l students usually go work back in their home country due to language barriers or other reasons. It's a clever marketing scheme for Ivey, as they've wanted to increase their international reputation in Asia as well from what I've read and heard.

So don't be too alarmed. I think the number of Canadians get offered Ivey AEO is relatively the same, possibly a bit more. not a big difference though.



Wow, I never thought that way about the International students. Thanks for the valuable info.



hmm i think most international students who have "language barriers" would go to rotman becuz of U of T's overall international reputation and the city of toronto.

if they have done even a little research, they would know ivey uses case study method and they will have to participate in in class discussion... with that being said, its not really like they would USUALLY "go work back in their home country" .. those who go to ivey must have confidence in their english. i think it kinda makes sense? : P
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