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The Math intensity of Business Programs

A photo of WillyLuong WillyLuong
Hello everybody,

Right now, I'm concerned about the difficulty or intensity of math in the following undergrad programs:

Schulich iBBA
Queen's Commerce
UTSC Co-Op Management

I never took math seriously through high-school, until Grade 12, and now I am paying the price. I am usually in the 70's as a math student, but I'm in the process of repeating both Functions and Calculus. The repeated marks are irrelevant.

My question: How hard is the math in the listed programs, and what are my chances of survival?

Thanks in advance.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
According to friends, - "so eZ"
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A photo of caveman caveman
Yeah, the math's pretty easy. You usually take a math/calc course in first year that's pretty basic. It covers Grade 12 Functions and Calc and maybe throws in a couple new concepts such as integration (although if you're in IB/AP I think they cover it). There's also a basic/intro Stats course, taken sometime in the first three years. Stats is a bit different than math, so that's a positive (potentially) for you I guess. Again, it's a basic course.

That being said, someone in these programs has to be getting low marks. There will be those few that never do any work and miss the midterm and stuff, of course, but I'd think if you're only getting 70s or lower now, you may struggle with the course. If you put in a lot of work, you should be able to get by no problem. I'd suggest hiring a tutor if things begin to go poorly from the get-go.

Aside from that little math, there's really not any more mandatory stuff- you'll see some financial math in some of your other courses (time value of money, annuities and perpetuities, mortgages in finance, bonds in accounting and finance, etc.). There's the option to take courses that are heavy in math (a lot of the finance courses, some econ courses, etc.), and they usually require you to take a harder or take more math courses, but you can try to stay away from those.
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A photo of iMuffinsx3 iMuffinsx3

@caveman wrote
Yeah, the math's pretty easy. You usually take a math/calc course in first year that's pretty basic. It covers Grade 12 Functions and Calc and maybe throws in a couple new concepts such as integration (although if you're in IB/AP I think they cover it). There's also a basic/intro Stats course, taken sometime in the first three years. Stats is a bit different than math, so that's a positive (potentially) for you I guess. Again, it's a basic course.

That being said, someone in these programs has to be getting low marks. There will be those few that never do any work and miss the midterm and stuff, of course, but I'd think if you're only getting 70s or lower now, you may struggle with the course. If you put in a lot of work, you should be able to get by no problem. I'd suggest hiring a tutor if things begin to go poorly from the get-go.

Aside from that little math, there's really not any more mandatory stuff- you'll see some financial math in some of your other courses (time value of money, annuities and perpetuities, mortgages in finance, bonds in accounting and finance, etc.). There's the option to take courses that are heavy in math (a lot of the finance courses, some econ courses, etc.), and they usually require you to take a harder or take more math courses, but you can try to stay away from those.



Does this mean that if I'm not really planning on going into a Finance or Accounting stream I don't really have to take more advanced math courses?
Is this pretty much going to be a repeat of IB SL Math? :P
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A photo of caveman caveman

@iMuffinsx3 wrote

Does this mean that if I'm not really planning on going into a Finance or Accounting stream I don't really have to take more advanced math courses?
Is this pretty much going to be a repeat of IB SL Math? :P



Well accounting doesn't require advanced math.

But yes, you won't be required to take advanced math unless you choose finance (and even then, you can avoid it) or just choose to take advanced math for the fun of it. First year math for arts/science students is almost the same anywhere, and it's mostly a review for those who took regular high school math/calc. I'm kind of unfamiliar with the IB curriculum, but I'd imagine it'd be mostly a repeat for you. I think it was mostly the students who did IB who said integration and stuff was review for them.
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A photo of Windsongs4 Windsongs4

@CMA2014 wrote


Queen's Commerce has two math courses in first year, calc and stats. Our calc course is very similar to IB HL Mathematics. We cover some multivar calc, integrals, some lin alg. Stats is pretty hard too, especially when you get to testings and stuff.

These two courses have the highest fail rate in our program, but they are also the courses that most people get A+'s in.



Okay for those who don't know:
HL math = higher level (aka all TIPS/ thinking questions. crazy hard, get uni credits for it)
SL =standard level (more knowledge and application. cover more than regular math, but doable)

I have a friend in Queens comm, he's a first year, and he says he's breezing through the math (and he did SL). So I don't know CMA how familiar you are with the IB curriculum to say that it's all HL stuff and very hard...
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A photo of caveman caveman

@CMA2014 wrote

@caveman wrote

@iMuffinsx3 wrote

Does this mean that if I'm not really planning on going into a Finance or Accounting stream I don't really have to take more advanced math courses?
Is this pretty much going to be a repeat of IB SL Math? :P



Well accounting doesn't require advanced math.

But yes, you won't be required to take advanced math unless you choose finance (and even then, you can avoid it) or just choose to take advanced math for the fun of it. First year math for arts/science students is almost the same anywhere, and it's mostly a review for those who took regular high school math/calc. I'm kind of unfamiliar with the IB curriculum, but I'd imagine it'd be mostly a repeat for you. I think it was mostly the students who did IB who said integration and stuff was review for them.



The math required for natural sciences/honours econ major course is Math121 at Queen's. This is definitely not a repeat of high school calc, especially since it goes beyond crap covered by HL Math.

High school kid... stop giving false advice.


"Is almost the same anywhere." Yes, I was making massive, sweeping generalizations. Sue me. My point still stands: first year math/calc is usually pretty basic for most arts/science students at most universities. You found a possible exception (although apparently Windsongs disagrees). You're a winner! Claim your prize.

And I'm not in high school.
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A photo of Super Super
Any word on how intense the required first 2 years of math courses are for BMOS at Western?
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A photo of Windsongs4 Windsongs4

@caveman wrote

@CMA2014 wrote

@caveman wrote

@iMuffinsx3 wrote

Does this mean that if I'm not really planning on going into a Finance or Accounting stream I don't really have to take more advanced math courses?
Is this pretty much going to be a repeat of IB SL Math? :P



Well accounting doesn't require advanced math.

But yes, you won't be required to take advanced math unless you choose finance (and even then, you can avoid it) or just choose to take advanced math for the fun of it. First year math for arts/science students is almost the same anywhere, and it's mostly a review for those who took regular high school math/calc. I'm kind of unfamiliar with the IB curriculum, but I'd imagine it'd be mostly a repeat for you. I think it was mostly the students who did IB who said integration and stuff was review for them.



The math required for natural sciences/honours econ major course is Math121 at Queen's. This is definitely not a repeat of high school calc, especially since it goes beyond crap covered by HL Math.

High school kid... stop giving false advice.


"Is almost the same anywhere." Yes, I was making massive, sweeping generalizations. Sue me. My point still stands: first year math/calc is usually pretty basic for most arts/science students at most universities. You found a possible exception (although apparently Windsongs disagrees). You're a winner! Claim your prize.

And I'm not in high school.




+1
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A photo of bcd92 bcd92
(CMA has no life -__- )

@ willy: im kinda really scared of math too. From what i've heard, its only first year where they repeat basic math. you should be fine for 2,3,4 years.
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A photo of bcd92 bcd92

@CMA2014 wrote

@bcd92 wrote
(CMA has no life -__- )

@ willy: im kinda really scared of math too. From what i've heard, its only first year where they repeat basic math. you should be fine for 2,3,4 years.



you: 1.18 posts per day
me: 0.84 posts per day

There goes your whole "CMA has no life" theory.

In Rotman Commerce Econ & Finance major, the math gets intense (and also very tedious).
In Queen's Commerce, in courses such as BDM, Operations Management, Managerial Economics, and Finance II (which are all required courses), you'll be required to have a solid understanding of multivar calc, lin alg, probability distributions, statistical theories, regression/hypothesis testing.

Also, first year calc and stats at Queen's.. It's not basic math. Integration, multivar calc, lin alg, statistical modelling, etc etc. There is a reason why schools require you to take basic math courses in high school..So that they don't have to repeat it in university. Again, refer to the course descriptions I posted earlier.

So you, a high school student, is giving out false information. I don't know what agenda you have, giving people false hope, but stop doing it.



I didn't make myself clear. The previous comment was made in reference to the bba programs, not commerce.

And i am not giving out any false information. I've done my research, ive talked to current students and am here to share my knowledge and understanding for programs that i've applied to as well.

anyhow, its almost useless going through the trouble of explaining myself to a troll like you.
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A photo of cliffhanger33 cliffhanger33
I REALLY don't get why you guys call CMA2014 a troll. His posts may be condescending and frank, but doesn't fit the definition of a troll.

I am taking HL math (but will take SL exam coz thats a free 7 points for me), but HL content is completely different from SL, making SL look like nothing. The integration unit can be covered in 2 classes and doesn't even cover integration by parts, T-Subs, etc. SL also skips out on relative rates and jumps to optimization, which is a big chunk gone. I can go on about how much SL is inferior to HL.

SL is a breadth course and HL is depth. But it depends on the person. Tons of SL kids do well in uni math and doesnt necessarily imply that HL kids only do well. I am taking HL math curriculum only to be better 'prepared' for uni math, but will be taking the SL exam coz I really don't want the extra stress to study for the exam nor do I care about the transfer credits or w/e you get.

HL math is easily the hardest course in IB (excluding Further Maths, which is just an addition to HL math)
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A photo of SUMmer123456 SUMmer123456
To be honest with you, it depends on how crap you are at math. I got ok grades in math, but conceptually speaking, I felt like (was) crap. My advice to you would be to brush up on your math before going to university to ensure you have a reasonable grasp of the subject. The math for business programs beyond the core calc course(s) is not terribly complex conceptually. It's just a shitload of calculations for the finance-type courses, which don't really need a great command of derivation/integration. So yeah...it's not a huge concern, but you have to have reasonable facility with numbers because you will likely take 1 or 2 first year math courses (even if specialized for business students).
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A photo of Windsongs4 Windsongs4

@cliffhanger33 wrote
I REALLY don't get why you guys call CMA2014 a troll. His posts may be condescending and frank, but doesn't fit the definition of a troll.

I am taking HL math (but will take SL exam coz thats a free 7 points for me), but HL content is completely different from SL, making SL look like nothing. The integration unit can be covered in 2 classes and doesn't even cover integration by parts, T-Subs, etc. SL also skips out on relative rates and jumps to optimization, which is a big chunk gone. I can go on about how much SL is inferior to HL.

SL is a breadth course and HL is depth. But it depends on the person. Tons of SL kids do well in uni math and doesnt necessarily imply that HL kids only do well. I am taking HL math curriculum only to be better 'prepared' for uni math, but will be taking the SL exam coz I really don't want the extra stress to study for the exam nor do I care about the transfer credits or w/e you get.

HL math is easily the hardest course in IB (excluding Further Maths, which is just an addition to HL math)



okay what's with the hate on SL? no one said anything about it being harder than HL, or better. I don't really get what the point of this was.
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A photo of caveman caveman
To CMA2014: again, that's an exception. I was making wide, sweeping generalizations, which are not fully correct. Perhaps I was wrong to do so, but I stand by my point that usually the math in business programs is not that difficult. Even if it is new math, it's not the same as the engineering/math students, and you get to learn something.


@cliffhanger33 wrote
I REALLY don't get why you guys call CMA2014 a troll. His posts may be condescending and frank, but doesn't fit the definition of a troll.



There have been instances of trolling, and there have been many instances where he directly insults forum members. By doing so, he loses all credibility, and this is why people call him a troll.
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