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I'm writing an English essay on how university admissions have become quite demanding. With top programs demanding high 90 averages and also a long never-ending list of EC's I was wondering if anyone could comment on their experiences or simply share their opinions on this issue. And if any previous uni students could talk about what it used to take to get into their program that would be greatly appreciated.Thanks!
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I'm writing an English essay on how university admissions have become quite demanding. With top programs demanding high 90 averages and also a long never-ending list of EC's

You will bomb this essay if you're going to make that crappy argument. University admissions has become a running joke, an undergraduate degree is the new high school diploma, and 60% of the current generation has a degree (and the number is continuing to climb). We are highest youth unemployment rate among degree holders in the world. There have been serious campaigns and discussions going on regarding high school grade inflation, university drop out rates, and rising unemployment among the youth.

You have no argument there for your essay. How much research have you done? You can literally count all the programs demanding 90+ averages on ONE HAND (maybe a hand and a half?). The vast majority of university programs accept students with 70s and 80s. High school grade inflation is also at a level where almost anyone with some effort can make the honour roll and get an 80+ average.
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You can literally count all the programs demanding 90+ averages on ONE HAND

Waterloo alone has about 15 programs that require 90+ for admission
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I group Waterloo engineering as a whole into one category...Don't act smart with me Veronica. You clearly know what I am talking about. I have many friends who went to Loo arts, environment, and science programs with 80s. The vast majority of university programs certainly don't need 90+ averages, let alone HIGH 90 averages as this naive, ignorant high schooler seems to presume.
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You can't just conveniently clump together a bunch of programs that contradict your opinion together to reduce the number. Each Waterloo engineering program is a separate program, and this is the same at U of T as well. If you said faculty or something, then I'd be more inclined to agree.

I'm not fighting with your overall opinion, I'm just saying there are a higher number of programs that are exceptions than your previously stated. 
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If you read what I wrote instead of rushing to your keyboard to call a teenager stupid you would see that I said "top programs". You keep mentioning that the vast majorities don't need it and I'm not arguing with that hence why I said "top" programs and as the other girl said, who u were also super rude to btw, there are actually a bunch of programs that require 90+ averages. How much research have u done obvs not a lot cause u can see in one google search that a lot of programs require that. How about before u try attacking a child for fun you pay attention to what they say because if you actually read it you wouldn't have written such useless garbage on this post. Also, quit being an bleep I literally said if anyone could share their experiences that would be appreciated. and thanks! but obvs you never learned manners cause you were too busy riding on our high horse acting like a king above all these high school kids who think programs demanding high 90 averages and great ECs are difficult to get into. I'm sorry we're not like you probs CEO of Google who just happens to also spend his free time making fun of kids you probs don't amount to anything. DW when I'm successful I'll throw some change in ur cup.
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idk what backwoods country hick village you came from but "retarded kids who skip class and take bathroom breaks to smoke weed" cannot easily churn out 90's there still is work involved. If you actually cared to read my post and pay attention instead of showing up only to roast me I clearly said: "top programs" <-- exact words, and it is a fact that these programs are hard to get into so how about you go find urself some manners cause rn you look stupid.
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OP you're a high schooler. Don't hype like you know jack all about uni admissions. I know plenty of people who smoke weed everyday and have 90+ averages. I'm not sure how this is news for you. Marijuana is going to be legalized next year. I know lots of professionals working on Bay Street who do harder drugs than marijuana and tobacco. You need to expose yourself to the real world and not hide in your small-minded shell. 

Top programs that require high 90s? Please name these programs for us. 
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Ok it's not that hard I think most people know programs like that exist. One example is waterloo comp sci one of the hardest programs to get into in the country, then you have various engineering programs. Literally, all it takes is a quick google search or a bit of time on eInfo and you can find the programs that require this
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Do you have anything better than to troll a highschooler on a post?? I’m not sure where you live or how old you are but it isn’t as easy to churn out 80’s or 90’s as a kid. Maybe before you hope on a post and make it sound like you’re top sh*t take into consideration who you’re responding to and the actual question itself. Your comments were completely useless and next time maybe you should keep some of your ignorant thoughts to yourself.
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How is slapping him in the face with truth considered trolling if what I'm telling him is objectively factual? Are you one of those retarded kids that seeks refuge in their safe space whenever someone spits out an uncomfortable fact? Christ, you kids will get torn apart on the job market with this victimhood mentality. The vast majority of kids graduating high school these days finish as an "Ontario Scholar." That should already tell you all you need to know about the current state of the public education system. Even the most cocaine-snorting, weed-peddling teenager can walk out under the honour roll these days. It doesn't make you a special snowflake to graduate with an 80s or 90s average. And to think OP has the gall to criticize undergraduate admissions for bumping up competition.
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^^

Who are you responding to exactly because there are two different people posting here?

It's beyond a joke to get 80s and 90s in high school. How is that a troll statement when it's been proven by countless academic research articles and students alike? You're another pathetic high schooler who must feel bad that you have to work your ass off to get 90s, while it's easy for others to achieve the same grades while also consuming drugs. 

This OP is a joke because the only programs that need mid to high 90s are some Waterloo, McGill, and U of T engineering/computer science programs. THAT's IT. There are virtually no other programs in Canada that require high 90s. OP needs to do some minimal amount of research before making up numbers and writing an essay on incorrect information? Has this kid never heard of doing thorough research before writing an academic research paper?

http://www.macleans.ca/education/uniandcollege/your-grades-will-drop

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/education/high-school-grade-inflation-balloon-ready-to-pop/article10452197

http://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/ontario-high-school-graduation-rates-are-the-highest-ever-is-the-tail-wagging-the-dog

http://nationalpost.com/news/canada/are-teachers-inflating-grades-critics-say-yes-school-boards-say-no-and-students-suffer-the-consequences

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grade_inflation#Ontario

https://www.reddit.com/r/uwaterloo/comments/305yb5/grade_inflation_in_ontario_schools

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Alta+students+face+tougher+standards+other+provinces+inflate+grades/5775717/story.html

http://oncampus.macleans.ca/education/2011/11/28/why-albertas-education-system-is-better  

http://www.universityaffairs.ca/has-ontario-taught-its-high-school-students-not-to-think.aspx http://www.fims.uwo.ca/newmedia2006/default.asp?id=424

https://yconic.com/discussion/ontarios-inflated-marks/t12232


The abolition of province-wide exams meant that student marks were entirely assigned by individual teachers. In 1983, 38% of students registering in universities had an average that was higher than 80%. By 1992, this figure was 44%.

According to the Council of Ontario Universities, 52.6% of high school graduates applying to Ontario universities in 1995 had an A average. In 2004, this figure had risen 61%. In 1995, 9.4 percent of high school graduates reported an A+ average. In 2003, this figure had risen to a high of 14.9%. The average grade of university applicants was 80% in 1997, and this percentage has steadily increased each year since. 

In 2004, Quebec's McGill University admitted that students from Ontario were given a higher cutoff grade than students from other provinces, because of concerns about grade inflation originating from the fact that Ontario does not have standardized provincial testing as a key component of high school graduation requirements.

OP, they say the minimum to starting a research paper is to read WIKIPEDIA. You couldn't even do this and are defending your unsubstantiated opinion?
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Oh yep I’m a very special snowflake. All I do is complain about how hard I work. Yep sounds about right. I’d rather do that than waste my life roasting some kid about a stupid f*cking question. If you thought what they said was stupid why did you say anything in the first place. Obviously you aren’t helpful at all.
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^

You're extremely foolish right now. Did you even bother to read the question. 

OP IS PLANNING TO WRITE A RESEARCH PAPER FOR HIS ENGLISH CLASS ON THIS TOPIC THAT HE CLEARLY HAS NO SUBSTANTIAL KNOWLEDGE ON.

What sounds like trolling to you might have just saved OP's grade. 
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Do people know how to read based on the way the people being rude talk you all are 30-year-old med school students yet none of you read the words "top programs" you just confirmed the fact that some programs require this.... those are guess what the top programs. Also, it's a fact that the extracurriculars students have to do these days to stand out is out of hand so my argument does have validity but I guess you don't care about that because bigshot 30-year-olds just wanna destroy a teenager over a forum post where they simply asked for students experiences. a simple "it's not that hard" would've sufficed or you could've not spoken at all cause guess you don't read yconic's guidelines which state don't be rude when answering questions. You've used a harsh tone so you have forced me to use a harsh tone.
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Read the OP people. He was asking about "top programs" and has acknowledged that the vast majority of programs do not require the 90s. The top ones have become more demanding regarding applications and have been putting more stress on students.
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If you think red pilling a naive high schooler is considered harsh and rude, then boy I don't wanna be in the same room as you when your employer inevitably hands you the pink slip. They aren't going to be looking out for you when you're forced to fend for yourself once you realize that you'll be struggling to make your monthly rent or put bread on the table. This is kiddie problems compared to what you'll be dealing with. You should be thanking us for slapping some sense into your naive skull.
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It's clear from the ignorance dripping from your posts that it's been a LONG time since you were in high school. From a student who is actually IN high school, I'm telling you that getting a 90+ average is extremely difficult, especially in good, competitive, academic high schools. Kids at my school work extremely hard to get 90s (very few do), and the "retarded kids who skip class and take bathroom breaks to smoke weed" are not normally aiming for Waterloo Comp Sci or UofT Engineering (those are considered TOP PROGRAMS, for your information. A list of more of these are below so you can educate yourself). Since obviously, you were one of these kids, I'd kindly ask you not to dump the anger of your lost future on kids who are aiming for great universities which demand high averages.
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Haha you might have “saved the OPs grade”. That’s the most ridiculous thing I’ve read so far. I’m pretty sure the OP is competant enough to write their own essay. I’m not the OP and I can say you’ve been no help whatsoever, so get off your high horse and relax
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Crappy high school in the middle of Manitoba?

Buddy, Ontario has the worse grade inflation in the country which is why McGill has admitted the following:

In 2004, Quebec's McGill University admitted that students from Ontario were given a higher cutoff grade than students from other provinces, because of concerns about grade inflation originating from the fact that Ontario does not have standardized provincial testing as a key component of high school graduation requirements.
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I think you're going to have a tough time showing (convincingly at least) that university admissions are actually more demanding if your argument is based on grades. While admissions averages have gone up, you need to control for the changing standard. Even if you focus on the small group of programs that have the highest averages, you are looking at 3-5 that actually require anything like mid-high 90s. (Low 90s brings in more, but again, not the majority).

If you want to actually show something along the lines of more difficult admissions, you probably want to focus on these things that stand out to me as major shifts from the recent past:
- Number of applicants 
- HS grades being a flawed/poor predictor of success
- Economic challenges having made HS students more cognizant of post-grad employability
- The decreased signal effect of a bachelor's degree

If you really want to strengthen your argument though, you need to narrow the scope. Right now you seem like you're trying to make arguments about university programs in general -> that will never work well since there is WAY too much variation. Pick a discipline, or a set of programs or some other smaller grouping of similar programs so you can draw meaningful and stronger conclusions.

(All that said, that level of detail is probably not anywhere near what your HS teacher expects...)
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Yeah, Ik there are a lot of factors that go into it but as you said it's not expected to be that detailed for HS. That being said thanks for nicely suggesting stuff rather than the other guy who seems to be waaaay too angry over a simple subject
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^

OP that other poster was clearly laughing at your idiocy and you in turn got angry at him. So, who is the angry one here? Christ, grow a backbone. 
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Here are all the FACULTIES (which include dozens of programs) that require 90 plus averages to be considered "competitive". NOTE: IT DOES NOT MEAN GUARANTEED ACCEPTANCE
Queen's Engineering 90+
U of T Computer Science 90s
U of T Engineering Science
ALL Programs in McGill Architecture 90+
ALL Programs in McGill Arts and Science 92+
ALL Programs in McGill Engineering 90+
McGill Management 90+
ALL Programs in McGill Science 90+
Waterloo Biomedical and Software 95+
Waterloo Computer Science 95+

Maybe you all should do more research before attacking a student who is just trying to do some research. 

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...You have been warned.
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OP is talking about high 90s nitwit. Do you not have the ability to read? Getting a low 90s is by no means difficult in today's high school system. Certainly getting a mid to high 90 is difficult but most programs don't require that. 

Queen's engineering requires low-mid 80s. LOL. My god, where did you pull 90+ from?

McGill arts you can get in with high 80s to low 90s. Nothing difficult about taking English and 5 bird courses in high school to get into an arts program.
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Not really sure where you think I am attacking anyone.... If you actually look at what I wrote it is constructive feedback (which is even acknowledged by the OP).

Also, if you re-read my post (not the anonymous post that someone else wrote) I said that the programs that need mid-high 90s is small (in your list you've given two examples). I acknowledged that more programs have requirements in the low-90s (but again, not the majority of programs) If you include all of the programs at all the universities (even just in Ontario) the are significantly more that do not require 90s than do.

I think you're confusing my comment with someone else's.....
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I am not illiterate. I understand that and that is why I said these are minimum grades for consideration. You more than likely need high 90s to get in. Don't be so lazy and google the stats!
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^

Ever heard of cudo? Go look at admissions average breakdowns by school. 
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I'm talking about the McGill Arts and Science program. Look it up! It's a joint program. Do some research before you resort to slander!
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And a "nitwit". Seriously!? I question YOUR ability to read. You having to descend to using that language shows your intellectual capabilities.
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My apologies North, I did mistaken your comments for an anonymous user and have changed my original post.
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It's clear that the thread creator is defending himself/herself on another anonymous account.

Honestly, why are you so insecure that you have to defend yourself to anons on the net? Everything they have said here is correct. It's better to take this information and write a better paper for your English class, than to make a crappy false argument and get a C. If I was your English teacher, I would roll my eyes at reading any high schooler paper talking about how hard it is now to get into university when the opposite has been PROVEN to be true. 
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McGill Arts & Sciences is a "top program" for you? Good god. Change your essay topic immediately.
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No offence to the anon above (who is likely the thread creator) talking about how hard it's become to get 90s in high school, what world are you living in? A simple google search on this topic shows hundreds of academic pieces on grade inflation in Canadian high schools. Another anon above has posted many of these links which you've strategically ignored in your posts as they do not help your argument.

Listen, there are thousands of university programs in Canada BESIDES the few programs at U of T, Waterloo, and McGill that require mid to high 90 averages. Stop keep mentioning the exact same programs that make up maybe 10% of ALL university programs in the country. 
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lol ngl these other people are not me they are my friends tho they just have the same view of the opinion as me cause we are all living it rn you guys have graduated a lot has changed in the past couple years.
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And how do you know that everyone here arguing with you have graduated? My god, your logical reasoning skills are terrible. How are you even getting good grade in school?
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Let's just let OP live out his delusional fantasy while he still can. Assuming he steps into university (highly doubtful at this point), he'll be hit in the face with a nice dose of reality after first semester and I will not be surprised if he gets put on that academic probation list after first year. He's complaining about something as petty as undergraduate admissions in Canada when he clearly hasn't ever faced any real adversity in his life and his parents probably tell him he's a special snowflake.
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OP, I've been arguing with you in a lot of posts and I'm another high schooler with a mid 90s average myself. Why in the world would you assume that I was some "30 year old" on a high schooler forum? So, just because I disagree with your opinion I'm suddenly not a high school student myself? Seriously, how are you going to write this essay of yours?

OP, so only engineering and business programs are top programs in the country for you? Where is social sciences and humanities, life sciences, health sciences, environmental sciences, urban planning, architecture, etc.? 

You have not responded to a SINGLE ONE OF MY SOURCE LINKS THAT I HAVE ATTACHED ABOVE. You nor your comrades defending you. How are you going to write a proper English essay if you can't even cite sources? I'm citing sources counter to your opinion and you can't even counteract me on an online forum. 
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this is the first post I've made on yconic and also all the anonymous people get confused with each other there are other people roasting who have said they've already graduated. also, I have a 92 average myself and am aiming for a spot in one of these top programs and I simply asked for feedback yet people decided to attack me except for one guy who gave constructive feedback
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also I just rn am considering top programs as the ones that require 90+ averages for acceptance as often but not always this is the case. IK for other fields you don't need this but for my argument, I'm talking about the high requirements for programs which often are in the STEM fields I'm not hating on the other fields I personally love history.
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People are attacking the fact that you're writing an english essay on a false premise. Otherwise, nobody could care less about your opinion as it's high schooler naivety that may of my own friends share. I have 3 older siblings in university and many family friends in uni who've told me the reality of it. My brother is in law school and my sister works at a Big 4. You need to talk to actual university students and professionals before writing your essay in all honesty. 
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So, which is it? Are you asking about your opinion or asking for feedback on your English essay? Two totally different things here.
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I simply wanted to hear peoples opinions and maybe their own experiences with uni admission requirements. Instead, the first person to comment started roasting me I haven't even written the essay I was hoping to use a quote from someone as evidence as our teacher said he wanted unique sources so my own forum post would count as that.... on the plus side I guess I have some counter-argument material. I'm not writing a hard-hitting thesis paper I'm writing a persuasive essay where I'm allowed to have my opinion and be informal and make jokes etc. I came here for some evidence as many people IK have the same feeling as me on this matter.
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OP, a better argument for your paper would be something like this - 

Students’ aspirations, expectations and school achievement: what really matters?

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/berj.3171/full

Talk about how high schooler expectations are frequently not met when they step into university. Talk about the dropout rates. Grade inflation in high school. How many students still feel like they have to work their ass off to get 90+ grades to get into some competitive programs, because grade inflation has become a very real problem. Talk about how even after students work hard to get into university they experience a 15% and more drop in their university average. Basically, to really make your argument stand you need to show the teacher that you understand your high school grades mean little once you actually get to university. But, also how high schools do little to prepare you for this eventuality as you're competing to get 90+ grades for some competitive undergraduate programs. 
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thanks for being nice and constructive. I'll take this into consideration as I'm still deciding how I'm going to format everything and planned on talking about grade inflation already
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Look, since everyone else in this section has resorted to fighting with one another I'll tell you my story.

I finished high school with a 91% average, I didn't even have to work hard to get it because high school is pretty much a joke. The only courses I actually put effort into were my two math courses, even those courses didn't require much effort. I applied to Waterloo AFM, Brock BAcc with coop, UTSC management with coop, Queens commerce, and some safety schools (Ryerson, McMaster, uOttawa, Carleton). I got accepted everywhere but Queens because my ECs could have used some improvement. In the end I chose Brock BAcc (saved lots of money by commuting) and I'm thriving here because I have a good work ethic and know how to manage my time properly. I'm doing well in my university courses with grades in the 80s (except for one).

Im sorry OP but the premise of your essay is flawed, there are lots of amazing programs that don't require an average in the high 90's to secure admission. On top of that, of course top programs will require high averages and ECs because it represents time management skills, a good work ethic, intelligence, and much more. Would you want a surgeon that performed abysmally in all their science courses? Or has poor time management skills? Would you want an accountant that can't do simple math? I don't think so. Anything worth achieving in life isn't going to come to you easily, you'll have to work for it. The problem with teens today is that they expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, when that doesn't happen they blame the universities for having certain expectations instead of themselves for being lazy. 
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Im sorry OP but the premise of your essay is flawed, there are lots of amazing programs that don't require an average in the high 90's to secure admission. On top of that, of course top programs will require high averages and ECs because it represents time management skills, a good work ethic, intelligence, and much more. Would you want a surgeon that performed abysmally in all their science courses? Or has poor time management skills? Would you want an accountant that can't do simple math? I don't think so. Anything worth achieving in life isn't going to come to you easily, you'll have to work for it. The problem with teens today is that they expect everything to be handed to them on a silver platter, when that doesn't happen they blame the universities for having certain expectations instead of themselves for being lazy.

+1
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