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University Programs That I Should Apply For In The Winter

A photo of MightyJJ MightyJJ
Hey guys! I'm in need your advice and opinions :)
I'm a gr. 11 student who's going into gr. 12 this year and I don't know what program to apply for come this winter. I'm interested in pursuing a degree in Business but im confused about the differences between business, accounting, finance, and commerce. I'm interested in your opinions on which are the best business programs in Canada. But I also have interests in other fields so if you can suggest any program that offer's a dual degree that would be greatly appreciated!
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My career goal is to become a Chartered Accountant and thus I need/want to get into a top-tier school with an excellent program. The reason I prefer to go for a dual degree is because i'm also interested in getting a degree in the sciences so that I could expand my career opportunities. My average in gr. 11 was pretty low but im positive that I could maintain a 90% average in gr. 12
Any suggestions for programs and universities that might interest me?
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP :)
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@MightyJJ wrote
My career goal is to become a Chartered Accountant and thus I need/want to get into a top-tier school with an excellent program. The reason I prefer to go for a dual degree is because i'm also interested in getting a degree in the sciences so that I could expand my career opportunities. My average in gr. 11 was pretty low but im positive that I could maintain a 90% average in gr. 12
Any suggestions for programs and universities that might interest me?
THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP :)



Waterloo has the best accounting program in the country and they do offer a program combination with their accounting faculty and science faculty - the biotechnology/chartered accountancy program. Unfortunately, the admission cutoff to this program is around 95% and only about 10 kids get in every year.

Western offers dual degrees - you could do biomed and Ivey. Ivey isn't that efficient for pursuing your CA though.

I believe Queens Commerce allows for dual majors of some sort, you would have to check that with someone else though.
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A photo of MightyJJ MightyJJ
Do dual degree's even look good on job resume's? I mean the jobs available in the business world are endless right? I just want to go a university that gives me the best education and experience that I could get. Like I know some programs offer international exchange programs where you go and study abroad for a year, something that really appeals to me. And do you know anything about the MBA degree?
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
Dual degree in commerce with sciences? Yeah it's difficult but not impossible I know a girl who did it and now she's interning at GS NY in the health care IBD.
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@immaculatedx wrote
Waterloo has the best accounting program in the country...


Define the best. In my books and in the books of many people in the industry, Schulich is known for the best accounting program in Canada. UFE passing rate for Schulich is much higher than it is for Waterloo.

MightyJJ, while Schulich does not offer a dual degree, it does have an outstanding internationally focused program, iBBA. It requires you to go on exchange to a different country and to learn a language and is generally geared to provide students with a global perspective which is strongly needed in today's world of increased globalization. The regular BBA program allows great exchange options as well, but does not require you to utilize them nor does it require you to study a language. I would recommend you to look into this school. It has outstanding reputation among business professionals in Canada and around the world. Schulich MBA is also ranked as the best business program by The Economist, Forbes, and other major publications. ;)
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@Respects wrote
More than reputation I would look at programs that have coop as well which is needed to become a CA. If you're sure you can achieve a 90 average, then your best options are Waterloo, Queens, UTSC, Laurier (coop not guaranteed though) and Schulich ( not sure about this because doesn't have coop, and you're limited in courses you can take outside of your program).


Co-op opportunities are not required to become a CA. Co-op terms do help; that is true. However, internships prepare one for the real world much better in terms of the recruitment process and developing leadership skills. There is a higher competition for internships and one really needs to step up to secure them. Perhaps this is why Schulich students are able to write better UFE exams. They learn a few more things than just those covered in the CICA handbooks. :)
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The Thing is that I have no interest going into the schulich program at York simply because I don't like the university and that I live too close to the university. By the way im confused, what exactly is the MBA, why is it famous and does it help in my CA designation? I checked out a couple of site's and many of them constantly rated Queen's as the best university in Canada for business. How about Mcgill? One of the programs i'm interested in is the dual degree option at Western's Ivy league program ... any thoughts on that?
I appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me, and im sorry if im bombarding you guys with questions :P
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@MightyJJ wrote
The Thing is that I have no interest going into the schulich program at York simply because I don't like the university and that I live too close to the university. By the way im confused, what exactly is the MBA, why is it famous and does it help in my CA designation? I checked out a couple of site's and many of them constantly rated Queen's as the best university in Canada for business. How about Mcgill? One of the programs i'm interested in is the dual degree option at Western's Ivy league program ... any thoughts on that?
I appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me, and im sorry if im bombarding you guys with questions :P


That's fair. If you have the resources and want to try a different experience, then it's good to move away from the city. :) When I was referring to different rankings, I was talking about The Economist, Forbes, Financial Times, and a few others. MBA doesn't quite help with CA because most people do it after they get their CA designation, but most business schools are assigned ranks for their MBA programs, so I had to mention it.

If you want to go away from the city, attend the top tier business school, and become a CA in the future, I would recommend Queen's. There you could connect with one of the most accomplished Alumni in the world, develop real leadership skills and get a strong foundation for your future CA career. Queen's students always have a high UFE passing rate. That's the only other program I was considering aside from Schulich for myself. However, getting a DD is going to be quite hard for you there because of the work load and I am not sure if Queen's offers it, but it's worth looking into.

McGill is a great university, but their business school is the weakest faculty.

Ivey is a great business school for iBanking and partying. :) They don't have the strongest accounting program, but it is recognized with the CICA. Their DD is the best for business and law. I haven't heard anything too special about other fields. Also, consider the cost - $40 000 per year for tuition for the last 2 years. ;)
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A photo of CatRunner CatRunner
Western does not have an Ivy League program. Western's business school is known as Ivey.

Ivey is unique because students pursue a different degree for their first two years at Western (which can be in the sciences), and then study business at Ivey for their last two years. For those who want a double degree, in both business and whatever else they were studying, they can tack on an extra year and get a double degree.

BTW, if you go into accounting based on high school accounting, you may be disappointed. I know at least two people who went into accounting programs because they were good at high school accounting who then dropped out of university, as the accounting programs at the university level were nothing like high school accounting. Just something to think about and make sure you do your research as to what an accounting degree and career actually entails.
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@MINTOK wrote

@Respects wrote
More than reputation I would look at programs that have coop as well which is needed to become a CA. If you're sure you can achieve a 90 average, then your best options are Waterloo, Queens, UTSC, Laurier (coop not guaranteed though) and Schulich ( not sure about this because doesn't have coop, and you're limited in courses you can take outside of your program).


Co-op opportunities are not required to become a CA. Co-op terms do help; that is true. However, internships prepare one for the real world much better in terms of the recruitment process and developing leadership skills. There is a higher competition for internships and one really needs to step up to secure them. Perhaps this is why Schulich students are able to write better UFE exams. They learn a few more things than just those covered in the CICA handbooks. :)

irst off to Respects comment- Queen's doesn't have co-op.

Co-op is not needed but work experience is.

The recruitment process for co-op isn't fundamentally different than the recruitment process for internships. Besides, the work experience you get during your co-op is far greater than during your internship. Working during the busiest most fast-paced time will prepare you to work better than working in the slowest time.

UFE training is done by your employer. Directly linking all success to Schulich is not correct. Not to mention the last time numbers were released was what, 2006? And Queens tied Schulich btw, with Laurier shortly behind.
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@MightyJJ wrote
The Thing is that I have no interest going into the schulich program at York simply because I don't like the university and that I live too close to the university. By the way im confused, what exactly is the MBA, why is it famous and does it help in my CA designation? I checked out a couple of site's and many of them constantly rated Queen's as the best university in Canada for business. How about Mcgill? One of the programs i'm interested in is the dual degree option at Western's Ivy league program ... any thoughts on that?
I appreciate all the advice you guys are giving me, and im sorry if im bombarding you guys with questions :P


The MBA was created to give people with no previous business knowledge a chance to learn business to help them perform better.the most common target was engineers, but also doctors, etc. So essentially an engineer could learn business and then apply his business knowledge as he moves into a management role at his firm, as an example. Work experience is highly important for admissions- the average age is significantly older than an undergrad program, and there are often MBA programs where you attend on the weekends and night classes, etc. since everyone is working and some don't want to stop and go to school.

For people ho have done undergrad in business, the MBA is essentially a repeat. I have beentold that often the MBA is useless for business undergrads, although it really depends on the person/situation. If you go to an elite school (Harvard, Wharton, Stern, etc just to name a few) you would have the benefit of networking and forming connections if you are a business undergrad that could make it worthwhile. Or so I have been told.

I have also been told that the majority of time, an MBA is useless for accountants. Again, I'm sure in some cases it might make sense, but if you do go through for accounting, don't plan on going for your MBA.

Stricly accounting/business programs to take a look at: Waterloo AFM, Waterloo Math/CA, Biotech/CA, Queen's Commerce, Schulich BBA/iBBA, Laurier BBA, Rotman Commerce, Western + Ivry AEO (not Ivy-league as Cat Runner mentioned), Brock BAcc, UTM/UTSC, and even McGill if you want although you may want to research how things change between ICAO and the Quebec CA Association, I'm assuming it is all relatively the same under CICA but there might be some differences between provinces that could be funny.

Of you have any specific questions about Waterloo AFM, feel free to ask here or PM me!
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A photo of MightyJJ MightyJJ
Wow thanks for all the overwhelming replies guys, appreciate it! So what im getting from alot of you is to refrain from doing the MBA right now because its pretty much useless for anyone perusing a CA designation or anyone with an undergraduate background in business/accounting? And you guys are suggesting that programs at Queen's and Waterloo are very good and efficient in preparing one in becoming a CA and providing top notch leadership skills and opportunities. I guess perusing a dual degree would be quite difficult considering the workload, but i know for a fact that im extremly interested in foreign exchange opportunities at the universities I apply for. Also what exactly is the difference between a co-op position, and an internship?

HOW IS WESTERN'S PROGRAM BTW
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@MightyJJ wrote
And you guys are suggesting that programs at Queen's and Waterloo are very good and efficient in preparing one in becoming a CA and providing top notch leadership skills and opportunities. I guess perusing a dual degree would be quite difficult considering the workload, but i know for a fact that im extremly interested in foreign exchange opportunities at the universities I apply for. Also what exactly is the difference between a co-op position, and an internship?

HOW IS WESTERN'S PROGRAM BTW


If you are not too interested in Schulich, then Waterloo or Queen's are probably your best options. Also look into Laurier and McGill. They both offer something a little bit unique.

There are dual degrees such as Waterloo and Laurier's BBA/BMath or BBA/Comp Sci, and Waterloo's Math/CA and Biotech/CA (the last two are extremely competitive), Ivey's dual degrees, and then dual degrees involving economics are somewhat common (business/economics are similar and fairly closely linked so it's not difficult to do). But a business and science dual degree is more difficult. Other than Biotech/CA (only ~10 people accepted) and Ivey's Science for 2 years + Ivey for 2 years and an option to do a dual degree (takes 5 years then), there aren't really any straightforward business/science dual degrees. If you are really interested in it, I would suggest calling/emailing an admissions officer at one of the schools you are interested in and see if they can help you with more accurate and school-specific information, or they will direct you to talk to a course scheduler or whatever at the school, who's job is to help students figure out how to do dual degrees among other things.

Also a warning, a business/science dual degree isn't going to be easy. Be prepared to put in a lot of work. Perhaps you may want to consider doing business and then taking science electives. Or you could do a science degree and then do an MBA later. Think about it.

Western's BMOS program is alright, but is far from elite. It is a Bachelors of Management and Organizational Studies. Not really a brand name degree. It's not on the level of Schulich/Waterloo/Queen's/McGill/Ivey/Laurier or even Rotman/Brock/McMaster/UTSC. It's not terrible, but I certainly wouldn't advise you to go there.

As for school vs school: there are going to be people who tell you Schulich's the best, there are going to be others who tell you Queen's is the best, Waterloo is the best, even Laurier is the best. Really they are all good schools. Put in some research and figure out the pros and cons to each school. Consider all factors: class sizes, campus, social life, atmosphere, etc. Figure out what the best school is for YOU.

While it is still early, a good exercise to do if deciding between two courses (If more you could use dice or something) is to flip a coin- say one side Queen's and one side Waterloo. Five flips. If you say "oh, best out of 7" and then "best out of 9" so one particular program has a chance to win, then you know which program you prefer subconsciously.
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A photo of MightyJJ MightyJJ
We'll after listening to all your comments, im not as keen in pursuing a dual degree with science and business as I was before lol ... Some of the Universities im really interested in are Queen's, Western, Waterloo, and possibly Mcgill :D
Any suggestions on elite programs that I could apply for at those universities? I want something that will help me pursue my CA designation, provide me with valuable leadership experience, job opportunities, co-op's, internships, and possibly a chance to study abroad for a semester or two? :)
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@MightyJJ wrote
We'll after listening to all your comments, im not as keen in pursuing a dual degree with science and business as I was before lol ... Some of the Universities im really interested in are Queen's, Western, Waterloo, and possibly Mcgill :D
Any suggestions on elite programs that I could apply for at those universities? I want something that will help me pursue my CA designation, provide me with valuable leadership experience, job opportunities, co-op's, internships, and possibly a chance to study abroad for a semester or two? :)


I would call some of the schools and talk to them about a dual degree- you could also try and find someone who is in one of these schools doing a dual degree that could answer some questions for you. I'm not trying to discourage you from it, but just know it's not common and may be tougher to get set up, and it will require a lot of work.

Waterloo has AFM-PA, which is excellent, and then there is Math/CA and Biotech/CA that require 95s to get in basically. All three are great but there's no real chances to study abroad as the program is filled with lots of content (few electives) and has co-op terms in between. Might be tough to do a dual degree.

Western donset have much outside Ivey. If you do Ivey (possibly a dual degree) it might be good (although I would recommend QC or Loo) BMOS is just meh. Certainly not elite. Ivey is expensive for what you get (this is for accounting only). There are exchanges, but people don't want to go while in Ivey since that's 1/4 of your time there gone. I think you can do one while in Western, 2nd year, but it doesntseem to be popular so there must be a reason behind it, although I have no clue what that could be.

McGill Desautels Management is great, and also has an awesome campus. You would be far from home in Montreal, which is almost an exchange in itself. You might want to look into how it works getting your CA in another province though. McGill is fairly cheap and I elieve has exchange opportunities. There could be options for a dual degree.

Queens's Commerce is a great school. There are many exchange opportunities (80% of 3rd year students go on an exchange or something). The only thing to watch is that you probably won't get any CA credits while on exchange, so you would lose your summer making up that time, which means no internships one year. Queens has a long list of transfer schools. Take a look on their website.

Really you can't go wrong with any of these. Consider all your options and choose the one that creels right for you.

As for internships vs co-ops: to put it simply, and this is accounting-specific,

- co-ops are through your program, which means everyone finds a job and the school helps you with it and then you work. Co-ops will be through the year almost always, which means you will get to work during the busy season (3/4 of Waterloo's co-op terms are in the busy season, and the other isn't summer which would be the least busy)

-internships are basically just a job that is related to your program. So instead of applying for a job at McDonalds you apply to KPMG. They are usually in the summer (there are some full year ones but not at these schools if I'm not mistaken). Your school will help a little sometimes, Schulich and Queens are k own to have career centers that help you a ton, and if you have seen Ivey's recruitment listings for Wall St./Bay St. jobs you will see how you're not on yor own. They are during the summer so you would be working during the least busy time. This means it is also harder to get jobs. It is usually harder to get internships until 3rd year or so, and I've been told that this is amplified in accounting. It is far fomimpossible to get a job though. You also have students from almost every b-school looking for an internship at the same time, as few schools have co-op.

Hopefully that helps.
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Wow and all these top universities ... what are their requirements and what do they look for in an aplicant? Let alone from the marks im sure they want to see leadership qualities and community involvement correct? And do you have too submit a supplemental application to apply to these programs?
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A photo of onlymatthew onlymatthew
Having had an interest in science and business going into grade twelve, perhaps I can give you my opinion on your issue. I very seriously considered doing a double degree or getting a minor in business. I'd first like to say that "business" and "science" are two very general areas, and it might be more helpful if you can pinpoint your exact field of interest. I'll give you the three choices I was considering:

Western (Biomed/Ivey)
I'm trying to be objective as possible, but I would say this is the optimal school for getting the best of both worlds. Queen's may be arguably better in business, and McMaster is better at health science, but Western truly gives you a good blend of both. I know a lot of people entering biomed who are retaining their AEO status to enter Ivey 3rd year as a fallback for business. A lot of these people have their hopes set on entering medicine, but keep the door open. I do know people that have gotten their HBA and proceeded to enter med school.

Some cons for this include that you don't actually enter Ivey until 3rd year. The work load also gets more and more intense as the years go on, but that's to be expected in a double degree.

Queen's (Commerce with a minor in physics/chemistry)
Unfortunately, you can't get a commerce degree with a minor in biology/life science/kinesiology, and the minoring options are actually quite minimal. I've heard some good things about their minoring system, though I can't speak from experience. I would say that your chances of medical school may not be as good (although, you should understand that you can enter medical school from ANY undergrad), because you have to juggle so many courses. Commerce by itself is often enough for people to handle.

McMaster (Health Sci with a minor in business/accounting)
This obviously has a very heavy highlight on health science, and you'll likely only have business electives. I've heard that it's difficult to get certain electives and classes that you want at McMaster for some reason or another, which makes getting minors even more difficult. Note that you likely won't be able to obtain a solid business job from this path, but I can think of some novel applications of this path.

In the case of Waterloo Biotech/CA, I personally wouldn't recommend it. Sure, it's difficult to get into, but I've heard from people in the program that it's not all that it's cracked up to be. The quality of the program itself is questionable, and I would definitely say it's "over rated". Also, Waterloo isn't much of a school for science, and I wouldn't necessarily say it's a great business school (although some of its programs can lead to great avenues). Ultimately, I think the biggest and best part of Waterloo as a whole is co-op anyways.

Also note that you have to know what you want to do with your undergrad. This can be difficult if you don't have any exposure to either field, but it's important that you at least have a vague understanding of what leads you where. If you want to do investment banking or consulting, taking science classes will in most cases detract from your business acumen. Contrarily, a double degree will often tank one's GPA so badly that they won't be eligible to apply for medicine. There's always the option of going into science and then getting your MBA afterwards in hopes of being more specialized in an science industry.
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