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UofT CS is better than UW CS because...?

A photo of Stranger Stranger
My parents keep pressuring me to go to UofT over UW. They say I should go to UofT cause it'll be more economical (closer + 5k scholarship) and that their CS program is better. They say this cause UofT is ranked #10 in the world for CS, and also cause they have successful friends who have graduated from UofT CS. They say I can't trust what the Internet people say.

I don't know how to argue back. :/
I've already told them I disliked the vibe at UofT. I don't want to live with them - my parents. I get more work experience at UW cause I can get 2 years of co-op. I felt like I'd fit in at UW, plus I know a bunch of you guys are choosing UW as well - there must be a reason for that, right? Even elsewhere on the Internet, I keep hearing that UW CS is superior to UofT CS by a little both, though they're both really good. Unsurprisingly, I don't personally know any successful CS grads.

I really despise the idea of going to UofT, and I really want to get away from my parents.

Could they be right about UofT CS being superior to UW CS? They say that UofT grads will get more job opportunities (inside and outside of Canada) just cause they're from UofT whereas UW is less well known. I don't really agree with this because I've heard from various sources - on the Internet - that UW are often favoured cause they prove to do very well. Then again, what do I know. I don't know any of these people personally, and I don't know if they've got their facts right.

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A photo of pepper pepper

@Stranger wrote
They say this cause UofT is ranked #10 in the world for CS, and also cause they have successful friends who have graduated from UofT CS. They say I can't trust what the Internet people say.




Where did you find rankings for CS? I haven't been able to find that anywhere/
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A photo of Stranger Stranger

@pepper wrote

@Stranger wrote
They say this cause UofT is ranked #10 in the world for CS, and also cause they have successful friends who have graduated from UofT CS. They say I can't trust what the Internet people say.




Where did you find rankings for CS? I haven't been able to find that anywhere/




I got them from my dad who got them from the newspaper (I think), also I've heard the same rankings on this forum, and I've heard the same from elsewhere on the Internet. :p

I just googled it now, and apparently they are actually ranked #8.
http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/archive/October2009/30/c4429.html
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous

@Stranger wrote
My parents keep pressuring me to go to UofT over UW. They say I should go to UofT cause it'll be more economical (closer + 5k scholarship) and that their CS program is better. They say this cause UofT is ranked #10 in the world for CS, and also cause they have successful friends who have graduated from UofT CS. They say I can't trust what the Internet people say.

I don't know how to argue back. :/
I've already told them I disliked the vibe at UofT. I don't want to live with them - my parents. I get more work experience at UW cause I can get 2 years of co-op. I felt like I'd fit in at UW, plus I know a bunch of you guys are choosing UW as well - there must be a reason for that, right? Even elsewhere on the Internet, I keep hearing that UW CS is superior to UofT CS by a little both, though they're both really good. Unsurprisingly, I don't personally know any successful CS grads.

I really despise the idea of going to UofT, and I really want to get away from my parents.

Could they be right about UofT CS being superior to UW CS? They say that UofT grads will get more job opportunities (inside and outside of Canada) just cause they're from UofT whereas UW is less well known. I don't really agree with this because I've heard from various sources - on the Internet - that UW are often favoured cause they prove to do very well. Then again, what do I know. I don't know any of these people personally, and I don't know if they've got their facts right.





Even though I'll be going to U of T next year, I'm gonna be honest and tell you that online rankings don't mean jack.
U of T hands down has the best grad school, but undergrad...well no one knows.
Even economically UW is the finer of the two options as it has co-op, which provides you with the oppourtunity to pay off more than 60% of your debt. I don't know how U of T can compete with that, even with the PEY internship.
It would be a shame to not go to UW CS since you got in. Tell your parents to do more reseach.

EDIT: keep in mind that UTSG is really good too, you can't go wrong with either schools. (Try to work things out with your folks)

EDIT 2: I know some extremely successful architecture undergrads that landed amazing co-op jobs, I'm sure CS is about the same..
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A photo of aimango aimango
^
Lol my mom told me about that too, and I was immediately like wdf is that bullshit? And I thought to myself , the only reason UofT is on there is cause they're known internationally for their research, but the funny thing is that we have a ton of international students in computer science. so how do all these international kids from china, india, etc. learn about our cs program?

lol i dunno. but they chose waterloo over uoft thats for sure : P
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A photo of arviny arviny
UW is pretty much a CS/Math/Engineering school, most of their budget is directed there and their graduates are very popular in NA.

UW is better for undergraduate studies because of the 2 years co-op is better in some sense than the 1 year PEY. UW also has a larger CS department compared to UofT for undergraduate studies.

UofT only has a high ranking because their graduate programs such as medical school, law school, dentistry, etc. and because of the research. The school is pretty much good for any field of study especially for graduate studies and research.

Graduating from UW or from UTSG CS won't make any difference if you're at the top of your class and work hard. Employers won't care if you came from UW or UTSG if you're skilled and intelligent. And both are great schools by the way, maybe UW is a bit better, but that doesn't mean UofT sucks. I met with one of the profs from UofT who studied at UW CS and he said you're not making a bad decision going either way, both schools are amazing in CS.

I'm prob going to UofT CS so see ya there if you come!

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A photo of apark17 apark17
there is no way UT CS> LOO CS..

espec with co-op and students being able to land AMAZING jobs, plus waterloo is known for its math/computing.

go to loo, it will be worth it!
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A photo of Stranger Stranger

@apark17 wrote
there is no way UT CS> LOO CS..

espec with co-op and students being able to land AMAZING jobs, plus waterloo is known for its math/computing.

go to loo, it will be worth it!



Yeah, I keep hearing that, but the thing is that I personally don't know of anyone who did CS at UW and landed an amazing job.

Do any of you guys personally know successful UW CS grads?
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A photo of arviny arviny

@Stranger wrote

@apark17 wrote
there is no way UT CS> LOO CS..

espec with co-op and students being able to land AMAZING jobs, plus waterloo is known for its math/computing.

go to loo, it will be worth it!



Yeah, I keep hearing that, but the thing is that I personally don't know of anyone who did CS at UW and landed an amazing job.

Do any of you guys personally know successful UW CS grads?



Steve Engels, UTSG CS prof.
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A photo of apark17 apark17

@Stranger wrote

@apark17 wrote
there is no way UT CS> LOO CS..

espec with co-op and students being able to land AMAZING jobs, plus waterloo is known for its math/computing.

go to loo, it will be worth it!



Yeah, I keep hearing that, but the thing is that I personally don't know of anyone who did CS at UW and landed an amazing job.

Do any of you guys personally know successful UW CS grads?



I know my friends brother works at amazon, gets paid a sh!tload..

also doesnt microsoft/google LOVE waterloo? might be their engineering, but nonetheless
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A photo of LRooke LRooke
The thing is, you absolutely can't go wrong with UoT. It'll also come in handy when you're trying to flog yourself for that expat management position in Shanghai.

And yes, I do know successful UW CS grads by proxy, if you count making ~80 Grand as a Systems Administrator right out of Uni as successful.
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A photo of Stranger Stranger

@arviny wrote

@Stranger wrote

@apark17 wrote
there is no way UT CS> LOO CS..

espec with co-op and students being able to land AMAZING jobs, plus waterloo is known for its math/computing.

go to loo, it will be worth it!



Yeah, I keep hearing that, but the thing is that I personally don't know of anyone who did CS at UW and landed an amazing job.

Do any of you guys personally know successful UW CS grads?



Steve Engels, UTSG CS prof.



LOL, I wonder how my parents will react to that. xD



@apark17 wrote

I know my friends brother works at amazon, gets paid a sh!tload..



That's awesome. :D



@LRooke wrote
The thing is, you absolutely can't go wrong with UoT. It'll also come in handy when you're trying to flog yourself for that expat management position in Shanghai.

And yes, I do know successful UW CS grads by proxy, if you count making ~80 Grand as a Systems Administrator right out of Uni as successful.


Woah, 80k starting? Yeah, I definitely consider that successful.. I'm only expecting around 50k starting. :p
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A photo of LRooke LRooke
He seemed to be a pretty regular guy. Of course my father fumes about how he only got $1600 a month after graduating at the head of his class from one of the best engineering universities, and how my mother made twice as much as a pol.sci grad, so it might be pure luck.
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A photo of greygoose greygoose

@Stranger wrote
Woah, 80k starting? Yeah, I definitely consider that successful.. I'm only expecting around 50k starting. :p



I know third year co-op students getting paid more than 63k if their salary was annual. The thing is though, you have to be skilled and really love the field, you can't just assume if you do the courses and don't go above and beyond that you're going to get that kind of pay. The things you learn outside the classroom are often the most important. It takes passion.

Starting co-op salary is equivalent to a little over 30k, and it works its way up.
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A photo of aimango aimango

@greygoose wrote

@Stranger wrote
Woah, 80k starting? Yeah, I definitely consider that successful.. I'm only expecting around 50k starting. :p



I know third year co-op students getting paid more than 63k if their salary was annual. The thing is though, you have to be skilled and really love the field, you can't just assume if you do the courses and don't go above and beyond that you're going to get that kind of pay. The things you learn outside the classroom are often the most important. It takes passion.

Starting co-op salary is equivalent to a little over 30k, and it works its way up.


this. and all of the SE grads ive talked to this year all have jobs waiting for them. a ton of them go off to big names in the states, some stay at smaller companies and make big $$ too.
google, microsoft, amazon, facebook all hire a handful of people from us all the time. but its not to say that the big names dont hire from UofT, too, its just that Waterloo has a Jobmine & the companies come down to give talks every 4 months. For UofT, I believe they give talks too, but not as often since it's more popular to work in the summer, obviously. also, facebook currently doesnt have a "Facebook @ schoolname" for UofT, so I assume they havent really looked at UofT : P

Its not always about big names though. Startups actually have a really fun/fast-paced feel.

and as previously mentioned, waterloo is great for undergraduate because of co-op. if youre not planning to do graduate studies, waterloo is the practical choice, literally : O
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A photo of waazup waazup
Umm 80 grand, I highly doubt :D

The Co-op work salary report indicates CS + math facility average 884 a week, translating to about 35 - 45k on average if you were working annually, and this is on Term 6.

So, I'd expect the average to be around 45 - 55k after graduating. 65k max for talented students, 80 would be unheard of, almost at any university besides finance programs, and would only be possible if you get a job at something like Google I'm guessing.

Just my $0.02
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A photo of LRooke LRooke

@waazup wrote
Umm 80 grand, I highly doubt :D

The Co-op work salary report indicates CS + math facility average 884 a week, translating to about 35 - 45k on average if you were working annually, and this is on Term 6.

So, I'd expect the average to be around 45 - 55k after graduating. 65k max for talented students, 80 would be unheard of, almost at any university besides finance programs, and would only be possible if you get a job at something like Google I'm guessing.

Just my $0.02




The gentlemen is working at Opentext Waterloo. They pay well, too.
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A photo of greygoose greygoose
EDIT: Whoops, button-mashed "Post".


@waazup wrote
Umm 80 grand, I highly doubt :D

The Co-op work salary report indicates CS + math facility average 884 a week, translating to about 35 - 45k on average if you were working annually, and this is on Term 6.

So, I'd expect the average to be around 45 - 55k after graduating. 65k max for talented students, 80 would be unheard of, almost at any university besides finance programs, and would only be possible if you get a job at something like Google I'm guessing.

Just my $0.02



These averages are just that: averages. They remove the top and bottom 10% at minimum, possibly even more. So you are looking more at median wages.

The idea is, if you're coming to Waterloo, you're looking to be exceptional, not average. If your Euclid score is above 70, you have that potential. But if you don't put in the work, you're SOL, just as average as any other student coming out of that program.

If you're the kind of person that learns next to nothing outside of classes and has no interest in the field beyond what your profs teach... well, good luck. But if you spend hours learning this stuff because you love it, you are going to be at a huge advantage. One of my friends is making $32/hr on his first university work term based on his ability and previous work. But it's not like he picked up half that stuff in classes.

The most important stuff you learn (for making money) is what you DON'T learn in class, but rather what you get on the job and from your personal studies. This is why co-op is so important.
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A photo of Stranger Stranger
I'm flippin' furious right now - I feel like I could go violent. :|

ARGH.

This is my life and my decision, and going to f'ing Waterloo.

I can't stand my parents. Live with them for the next 5 years? NO THANKS. Why should I decide to go through hell all over again?
Besides, I didn't even like the atmosphere at UofT when I went for their open house.

They keep telling me UW is too expensive. But who's gonna pay for most of the costs in the end? Oh yes, I AM.

They're just contributing the RESP which will be the same whether I go to UofT or UW.

Why the hell should I spend 5 more years of my life miserable?

I'm tired of putting off happiness.

If I end up as a hobo in the streets, knees deep in debt, then I could always kill myself you know.

I think I'm starting to sound a little melodramatic right now, but I'm very upset and angry.

Edit: What makes me more furious? My parents always talk about money in a miserly way like we can't afford UW, yet they're planning this 20k vacation for the summer. WTF? Not to mention, we eat take out like every other day. (Certainly not rich though).
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A photo of Stranger Stranger

@greygoose wrote
The idea is, if you're coming to Waterloo, you're looking to be exceptional, not average. If your Euclid score is above 70, you have that potential. But if you don't put in the work, you're SOL, just as average as any other student coming out of that program.



Mmm, I'm pretty sure I got 30-50 on the Euclid, but that's partially cause I stupidly didn't read all the instructions. (I thought there was a penalty or something for wrong answers...)
I have one of the top averages in my school though. :/


But if you spend hours learning this stuff because you love it, you are going to be at a huge advantage.



Yay. :p
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A photo of greygoose greygoose
If you push yourself to the limit of your tolerance and ability, you will learn of pain... and you will taste sweet success. If there is ever an advanced option, learn it. If there is ever a follow-up topic that interests you, research it. Play around with things on the side.

Always keep learning. And you will grow. And yeah, then I guess all of that stuff like money and crap follows, but that's making a living, not living a life.
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A photo of andrewk512 andrewk512

@Stranger wrote
This is my life and my decision, and going to f'ing Waterloo.



<3

Sorry, I've been lurking. =P
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A photo of LRooke LRooke

@Stranger wrote
I'm flippin' furious right now - I feel like I could go violent. :|

ARGH.

This is my life and my decision, and going to f'ing Waterloo.

I can't stand my parents. Live with them for the next 5 years? NO THANKS. Why should I decide to go through hell all over again?
Besides, I didn't even like the atmosphere at UofT when I went for their open house.

They keep telling me UW is too expensive. But who's gonna pay for most of the costs in the end? Oh yes, I AM.

They're just contributing the RESP which will be the same whether I go to UofT or UW.

Why the hell should I spend 5 more years of my life miserable?

I'm tired of putting off happiness.

If I end up as a hobo in the streets, knees deep in debt, then I could always kill myself you know.

I think I'm starting to sound a little melodramatic right now, but I'm very upset and angry.

Edit: What makes me more furious? My parents always talk about money in a miserly way like we can't afford UW, yet they're planning this 20k vacation for the summer. WTF? Not to mention, we eat take out like every other day. (Certainly not rich though).







What do your parents do? If they're engineers they'd understand the problem of prestige. That being said, at least you get to go on vacation, unlike my "Been there before on company expense, not going back again." parents ):
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A photo of Stranger Stranger

@LRooke wrote
What do your parents do? If they're engineers they'd understand the problem of prestige. That being said, at least you get to go on vacation, unlike my "Been there before on company expense, not going back again." parents ):



They run a little business. :p
I don't even know if this vacation is for sure, but my mom was talking about it.
We usually don't go on vacation (unless camping counts haha) since my parents are always so busy working.
If the plan actually goes through, it'd be the longest and most expensive vacation (by far) for us.
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A photo of Stranger Stranger
Lol, my dad called a friend of his to ask for advice... UofT or UW... He said both are good but I should go to UW CS for undergrad. =)
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A photo of SUMmer123456 SUMmer123456

@Stranger wrote
Lol, my dad called a friend of his to ask for advice... UofT or UW... He said both are good but I should go to UW CS for undergrad. =)



He gave you good advice. Not bragging, but Waterloo is hands-down the best university for CS in the country.
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