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What bussiness university is best for someone like me?

A photo of Vinashan Vinashan
My EC's aren't very good but looking back at my grade 11 marks I should be able to pull a 90+ average in grade 12, as I've already fast tracked data mang with a 94. I was thinking along the lines of Schulich/ Rotmans. I know that Western is an amazing school for it's Ivey program but they apparently take 50% of your EC's as a mark for admission. So what do you guys think? Between Schulich/Rotmans/Queens/Waterloo. I also know that Waterloo has a great Co-op program but 5 years feels like a stretch. My friends and relatives tell me that a UFT undergrad degree is not a wise choice as their Master's degree is where it's at. I'd really like some help please on this, and thank you all for your time. I would also appreciate if any universities other than the one's I have listed above are recommended to me, such as McGill. Thanks!:cheers:
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK
University shouldn't chose you. You should chose university. Ask yourself what do you want to do and then ask yourself why. Really think about it. Then consider a university which will suit your needs. If you like that option, you will find a way to get into that program. Now, if you give us some context, we could suggest you something.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
Here's some information about admissions


@immaculatedx wrote
It's generally accepted that the top tier undergraduate business schools in Ontario are Ivey, Queens, Schulich and Rotman. It's also generally accepted that in the tier 1 there is Ivey and Queens, in tier 2 there is Schulich (Unless you want to pursue your CA), and then there's Rotman.

I can give you a little outlook from what I've seen about the admission process to these programs.

Ivey has traditionally been Canada's best undergraduate business school. However, with their expansion, they are now taking a crapload of students; many of them being very mediocre. The lowest mark I've ever seen an Ivey AEO admitee have was an 87. They do weigh your supplementary essay very highly - one of my friends with a 97 average was rejected, but I've noticed it's very easy to BS and make up your activities - I've seen friends with 88s with completely made up ECs get in. Ivey does call your references from time to time but usually only if the activity is pretty major. Overall, the admission standards are getting lower for Ivey AEO but with that being said, the top tier Ivey students will have the best recruitment prospects out of all the undergraduate business students in canada - that won't change.

Queens has in my opinion, the most competitive admissions process. The marks don't really matter too much after their cutoff (Which I believe is an 87) - the Essays/PSEs are very important. They are read and given a score and sent to another admissions officer to read it and score it again; if the scores are not similar, they will have this process repeated until they receive a similar score. I think QC does the best job in evaluating your supplementary applications. Anyways, I've seen many 90+ students get rejected by QC even with very solid EC/experiences. The key is to be able to sell yourself and your activities.

Schulich's admission standards are very mark-based despite what they will tell you. They will rank your supplementary essays based on tiers (Tier One being the best, Tier Two being second best, and so on and so on). The problem I saw with Schulich's admissions office was not that they were not placing emphasis on the supplementaries but rather because I don't think they were carefully read. Basically, it was very easy for lots of students to BS their activities (Kind of similar to Ivey).

Rotman is pretty easy to get in; two kids from my school got in with mid to high 80 averages with no real ECs. They give the mass of their acceptances out very late though so it may seem more competitive than it actually is.

Out of the province, it is generally accepted that Sauder and Desautels are the best undergraduate business programs. I don't know much about them other then the fact that Sauder has an 84 cutoff and Desautels has a 93 cutoff (But with no supplementary applications). I do know that top tier Sauder and Desautel students have had amazing internship/ft oppurtunities. Check out the McGill Investment Council and their work experience http://mcgillinvestmentc...mp;id=162&Itemid=77 . I think if you're interested in McGill, that it's very important to get into the Honours Investment Management stream in 2nd year.

Just to note, if you ever read about B Schools on the web, they are 99% of the time talking about MBA programs. This is where you will hear programs like Rotman being top tier which certainly not the case at the undergraduate level. So the only information you can get about Undergrad B Schools are to talk to people like us really... and if you know recruiters in the industry, they usually are in the



Now you mentioned Waterloo which I'm guessing is for the AFM program and I didn't have that in my post. For AFM, everyone with a mid 80 and above will be invited to write the AFMAAs which is a 2 hour session in which you write 2-3 essays. You will also have to write your AIF which is like a supplementary form. For Public Accounting, the average acceptance average was around 92, and 89 for Financial Management.

Now to answer the OP's questions/concerns

You're asking us to recommend a program to you based on nothing. What you should be doing is learning and researching about the programs; figuring out yourself which program is not only the right fit for you but which one can turn you into the person you want to be. I think what you're trying to ask with your post is which program you'd get into? Which is totally the wrong approach. All the programs you mentioned are very solid though and you can't really go terribly wrong with any of them.

With that being said, I can respond to some of your comments. Yes Schulich/Rotmans places less attention on ECs so that may be attractive to you. Ivey is amazing but it really isn't that hard to get into. The Waterloo AFM program is actually 4 years and then you can do your 8 month Masters of Accounting. Yes Rotman at UofT is better known for its MBA rather than its Bcomm.

There's still time to get some ECs. It's more important to understand that it's not what you do, but rather how you spin it.
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A photo of Vinashan Vinashan
Yes, sorry I should have specified. I would like to pursue a CA designation after B.Comm. Would this mean that I should go for Schulich as you had mentioned? Although I also prefer a university that provides CO-OP whereas Schulich only has an internship.
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A photo of immaculatedx immaculatedx
If you would like to pursue your CA designations, I would look into Waterloo AFM, Schulich BBA, QueensComm, and Laurier BBA.

Though any accredited school/program would be fine.

As for coop, Laurier and Waterloo have coop programs.
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
Hm, I'll bite.

From my experience, none of these schools are that difficult to get into. I think only Queen's and Sauder a bit more tricky. But from what I've seen from Ivey, Schulich, Rotman it's pretty straightforward what kind of students they are looking for.

Schulich was so easy to get in this year, I got in with a 91.0 first round, LOL first round and the creative essay which was suppose to be "crucial" for admission I wrote that in twenty minutes on the day it was due literally 2 hours before the deadline. Skipped last period, went home wrote it quickly and went to drop it off, no proof reading or anything. I'm sorry if this may come off as cocky, but I'm just telling you this because this is what happened.

My Ivey application was pretty well done because it was my first uni application so I took that very seriously. But yeah got first round there as well.

McGill I got in May after mid-terms because to get early into McGill you need like 94-95+ so yeah.

Queen's I honestly never even considered, because I didn't think I was going to get in so I didn't even want to think about going there and getting my dreams crushed. The Queen's PSE and Supp, I wrote on the day it was due. I came home at 7, did all the three essays nd the entire app and handed it in 11:58 with no proofreading. People tell you that oh for Queen's the essay you need to start writing it like a month in advance blah blah, but no you don't...it doesn't matter how early you write it (like that brandonholmes kid is already starting right now) it just has to be a good essay and something that stands out. So here's a taste of how much the writing matters for Queen's - like it's so important.

Honestly guys it's not that difficult, just sell yourself, and be funny or do something to stand out. Include a pun, use satire, throw in a direct joke, do something to show that you have an unique personality, write the essay as you are in an interview...because I mean I have friends that I know should've gotten into Queen's they had 94s 95s and solid Ecs BUT there essay was SO damn boring LOL like it was soooo serious like the person marking is reading hundreds of essays, how is that boring essay going to stand out. Chill out and use your creative license. I'm just saying this because a lot of you are freaking out...and writing your essays already. You don't need to do all that right now lol

But yeah I mean I'm a pretty average student who had like 40s 50s one point in high school so if I can get in I'm sure you kids can as well.
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A photo of schulichgirl schulichgirl

@MINTOK wrote
University shouldn't chose you. You should chose university.



Lol good one.

GS^ I think you might have gotten in early with a 91 because you had real good supplementary app and you were probably done your prerequisites? It's not very common to get first round with a 91...at all.
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A photo of QCman QCman
you dont need to write it early for sure. however in my experience most people aren't good at writing and they need to keep revising their essay. A lot of kids who claim to be good due to their English grade actually arent veyr good writers. I dont think im an amazing writer, im decent but i still revised my essays a few times, i got a 6 in IB english but i still dont feel my initial drafts were excellent by any means.

Just to put in perspective, i had an 89 average, pretty strong ec's and decent essay, I got into QC in December, earlier than almost anyone, even most chancellor nominees ( I was one as well though )
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A photo of cliffhanger33 cliffhanger33
^ How did you get in so early? How do you apply for early decision?
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
^ If you are a chancellor nominee for the Queen's Chancellor scholarship you automatically get in early. For getting in regularly as an applicant, if you want early acceptance send your essay on Feb 15, and final date to submit is usually March 1st. Like some guy on this thread got in with a 88 early April as a regular with like crappy essays (he posted it) Queen's is pretty weird.
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A photo of cliffhanger33 cliffhanger33
Ohh interesting, what about for other schools, such as Ivey, do they have early decision
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs
They have a set deadline (usually mid-late January), so you're given early based on the quality of your application and if your references have responded to Ivey about their inquiries. If you have an excellent excellent application, but none of your references have responded back until like May they will wait for confirmation.
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A photo of QCman QCman
if you want to go to queens, i would reallly suggest you go to your uni advisor and ask that your school nominates you for the chancellor scholarship. It improves your chance to almost near certainty of acceptance.

http://www.queensu.ca/studentawards/financialassistance/admissionscholarships/major.html
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@Vinashan wrote
My EC's aren't very good but looking back at my grade 11 marks I should be able to pull a 90+ average in grade 12, as I've already fast tracked data mang with a 94.


Queen's cares a lot about EC's and how well you do on your essays. So don't be surprised if you get rejected.


@Vinashan wrote
I know that Western is an amazing school for it's Ivey program but they apparently take 50% of your EC's as a mark for admission. So what do you guys think?


Well you said you want to pursue your CA. If that's the case, don't go to Ivey as Ivey's a finance-dominant school.


@Vinashan wrote
I also know that Waterloo has a great Co-op program but 5 years feels like a stretch.


If you're not too fond of this look at Laurier. It's also got a great co-op only it's 4 years. Plus they're a great school for accounting.

P.S. For McGill you'd need around a 93 average to get in. Even then, for accounting, I'd say Waterloo, Laurier (with co-op), Schulich would be your best bet (in that order).
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A photo of g93 g93

@Vinashan wrote
I also know that Waterloo has a great Co-op program but 5 years feels like a stretch.


Every other school (except for Schulich) will be 4 years and one semester. That is what UW is. There is an additional one term for the diploma program to get your CA hours, or more common would be the Masters which gives you a Masters degree, UFE prep and allows you to specialize (eg audit, tax, etc.) You will have 4 co-op terms mixed in there, including at least two in the busy season, which is great learning. If you can get CATO jobs, UW is the fastest route. Even without them, the only school that would make things faster really is Schulich, which you can do in 4 years (although no co-op).
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@g93 wrote
Every other school (except for Schulich) will be 4 years and one semester.


Actually there are plenty of accredited programs aside from Schulich which are only 4 years:

University of Toronto – At Mississauga, the Master of Management and Professional Accounting (MMPA), the Bachelor of Commerce, Commerce and Finance: Accounting Specialist stream, and at Rotman Commerce, St. George, the Bachelor of Commerce, Specialist in Accounting stream;
Wilfrid Laurier University – The Honours Bachelor of Business Administration, regular and co-op, and the Bachelor of Arts in Economics and Accounting, regular and co-op, both inclusive of the post-degree undergraduate courses needed to complete the 51 credit hours;
Brock University – The Bachelor of Accounting, Option A, regular and co-op;
Queen’s University – The Bachelor of Commerce, Accounting stream, in combination with the Graduate Diploma in Accounting;
University of Western Ontario – The Honours Bachelor of Business Administration, Accounting stream at the Richard Ivey School of Business, inclusive of the Diploma in Accounting; and
McMaster University – The Master of Business Administration and the Bachelor of Commerce (Honours), regular and internship, both inclusive of the Courses for Professional Designation needed to complete the 51 credit hours.

Additionally, some of the above schools offer fast-tracking. However, Schulich is by far the best. :D
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A photo of g93 g93

@MINTOK wrote

@g93 wrote
Every other school (except for Schulich) will be 4 years and one semester.


Actually there are plenty of accredited programs aside from Schulich which are only 4 years:

University of Toronto – At Mississauga, the Master of Management and Professional Accounting (MMPA), the Bachelor of Commerce, Commerce and Finance: Accounting Specialist stream, and at Rotman Commerce, St. George, the Bachelor of Commerce, Specialist in Accounting stream;
Wilfrid Laurier University – The Honours Bachelor of Business Administration, regular and co-op, and the Bachelor of Arts in Economics and Accounting, regular and co-op, both inclusive of the post-degree undergraduate courses needed to complete the 51 credit hours;
Brock University – The Bachelor of Accounting, Option A, regular and co-op;
Queen’s University – The Bachelor of Commerce, Accounting stream, in combination with the Graduate Diploma in Accounting;
University of Western Ontario – The Honours Bachelor of Business Administration, Accounting stream at the Richard Ivey School of Business, inclusive of the Diploma in Accounting; and
McMaster University – The Master of Business Administration and the Bachelor of Commerce (Honours), regular and internship, both inclusive of the Courses for Professional Designation needed to complete the 51 credit hours.

Additionally, some of the above schools offer fast-tracking. However, Schulich is by far the best. :D


No, that is incorrect. All of those schools require you to come back for one additional semester/term to complete the 51 credit hours for your CA designation. They just do not advertise it. You probably wouldn't know that since you go to Schulich where it is only 4 years. If you are not interested in that, you could graduate with a Bachelors of Business Admin or Commerce with a minor or specialization w/e in accounting. But this person wants to be a CA so that is irrelevant.

The diploma program at Waterloo is essentially the same length as any of these other programs (except for Schulich), your co-op terms are in the middle instead.

Eg:

Other school:
Y1 Fall Term: School
Y1 Winter Term: School
Y1 Summer Term: Off
Y2 Fall Term: School
Y2 Winter Term: School
Y2 Summer Term: Off
Y3 Fall Term: School
Y3 Winter Term: School
Y3 Summer Term: Off
Y4 Fall Term: School
Y4 Winter Term: School
Y4 Summer Term: Off
Y5 Fall Term: School (to finish CA credits)
Y5 Winter Term: Off (need to find job)
CKE in Jan or May and SOA in June
Y5 Summer Term: Off (hopefully are working)
UFE in September

Waterloo:
Y1 Fall Term: School
Y1 Winter Term: School
Y1 Summer Term: Off
Y2 Fall Term: School
Y2 Winter Term: Co-op
Y2 Summer Term: School
Y3 Fall Term: School
Y3 Winter Term: Co-op
Y3 Summer Term: School
Y4 Fall Term: Co-op
Y4 Winter Term: Co-op
Y4 Summer Term: School
Y5 Fall Term: School
Y5 Winter Term: MAcc/Diploma Program (both to finish CA credits)
CKE and SOA if in Diploma program
Y5 Summer Term: MAcc (specialize)/Off (need to find job)
No CKE and SOA if in MAcc
UFE in September regardless

Waterloo gives you your highest chance at getting CATO jobs and Big 4 jobs, and has 3 co-op terms during the busy season. You have the opportunity to get a MAcc and specialize. If you choose that route you can skip the CKE and SOA as well (not overly difficult but it's nice to not have to worry).

You need to be working at a CATO in order to write the UFE. Waterloo gives you the highest chance of working at a CATO. That sounds good to me.

The only school that could potentially be faster is Schulich.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous
@g93 What is the CKE and SOA? I've never heard of them :o
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A photo of goldmansachs goldmansachs

@Username81 wrote
@g93 What is the CKE and SOA? I've never heard of them :o



It's the first two exams for the CA designation and is part of the ICAO professional program. CKE (Core Knowledge Exam) is the first one followed by SOA (School of Accountancy). Then as you already know the final step is the UFE.
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A photo of QCman QCman
for those looking to learn more about becoming a CA go to

http://www.icao.on.ca/
http://www.guidetorulingtheworld.ca/
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A photo of QCman QCman
for those looking to learn more about becoming a CA go to

http://www.icao.on.ca/
http://www.guidetorulingtheworld.ca/
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A photo of MINTOK MINTOK

@g93 wrote
No, that is incorrect. All of those schools require you to come back for one additional semester/term to complete the 51 credit hours for your CA designation. They just do not advertise it. You probably wouldn't know that since you go to Schulich where it is only 4 years. If you are not interested in that, you could graduate with a Bachelors of Business Admin or Commerce with a minor or specialization w/e in accounting. But this person wants to be a CA so that is irrelevant.


BS. I know a dozen of CA who graduated from the programs I mentioned and they did all of their 51 credits in 4 years. Some fast-tracked and did it earlier. Also, check out the source: http://www.icao.on.ca/Public/ICAOFundinginAccountingInOntario/1014page4565.aspx

However, students DO need to come back for another semester if they went to Algoma, Carleton, Lakehead, Laurentian, Nipssing, Redeemer, Ryerson, Trent, Guelph, Guelph-Humber, UOIT, Ottawa, UofT Scar., Western BMOS, Windsor, and York Atkinson.


@g93 wrote

Y1 Summer Term: Off
Y2 Summer Term: Off
Y3 Summer Term: Off
Y4 Summer Term: Off



How lazy would you need to be? Work/summer school in the summer.


@g93 wrote

Y5 Winter Term: Off (need to find job)



I begin to seriously doubt your knowledge in any of this because 98% of recruitment for major companies happens in early fall for the following year.
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A photo of Anonymous Anonymous

@MINTOK wrote
BS. I know a dozen of CA who graduated from the programs I mentioned and they did all of their 51 credits in 4 years. Some fast-tracked and did it earlier. Also, check out the source: http://www.icao.on.ca/Public/ICAOFundinginAccountingInOntario/1014page4565.aspx

However, students DO need to come back for another semester if they went to Algoma, Carleton, Lakehead, Laurentian, Nipssing, Redeemer, Ryerson, Trent, Guelph, Guelph-Humber, UOIT, Ottawa, UofT Scar., Western BMOS, Windsor, and York Atkinson.



g93's right when he says, "No, that is incorrect. All of those schools require you to come back for one additional semester/term to complete the 51 credit hours for your CA designation. They just do not advertise it." It's the same here at Laurier, they just don't advertise it as g93 said.
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A photo of g93 g93

@MINTOK wrote

@g93 wrote
No, that is incorrect. All of those schools require you to come back for one additional semester/term to complete the 51 credit hours for your CA designation. They just do not advertise it. You probably wouldn't know that since you go to Schulich where it is only 4 years. If you are not interested in that, you could graduate with a Bachelors of Business Admin or Commerce with a minor or specialization w/e in accounting. But this person wants to be a CA so that is irrelevant.


BS. I know a dozen of CA who graduated from the programs I mentioned and they did all of their 51 credits in 4 years. Some fast-tracked and did it earlier. Also, check out the source: http://www.icao.on.ca/Public/ICAOFundinginAccountingInOntario/1014page4565.aspx

However, students DO need to come back for another semester if they went to Algoma, Carleton, Lakehead, Laurentian, Nipssing, Redeemer, Ryerson, Trent, Guelph, Guelph-Humber, UOIT, Ottawa, UofT Scar., Western BMOS, Windsor, and York Atkinson.


They all would have fast tracked then.

Every single person in the schools mentioned before (except Schulich) that are planning to become CAs all say that there is an additional term. You'd think they would know, wouldn't you?

@MINTOK wrote


@g93 wrote

Y1 Summer Term: Off
Y2 Summer Term: Off
Y3 Summer Term: Off
Y4 Summer Term: Off



How lazy would you need to be? Work/summer school in the summer.

eriously? If you look at any course sequence, they will say off. You're not in co-op and you are not in a study term. What you do with that term is up to you.

@MINTOK wrote


@g93 wrote

Y5 Winter Term: Off (need to find job)



I begin to seriously doubt your knowledge in any of this because 98% of recruitment
for major companies happens in early fall for the following year.

did not mean that you should Commmce your job search right when winter term starts. I meant that you really need a job for this term. It is not ideal, but just working any job for the other summers is fine, but now would be the time to get into a firm if you haven't- you will need to in order to write the UFE. But obviously you would start looking for a job long before that.

Are you just trying to nitpick everything I say? You jump all over things because they are not how you want it, you jump over a minute detail on something I prepared in 30 seconds, you say you "doubt my knowledge" because of these things... I k ow what I am doing and have done pretty good for myself up until this point. I have provided lots of accurate help on this forum. If something is not clear, just ask, "hey, did you mean...?"
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